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Creatures phylogeny   
cyborg

cyborg



  3/16/2021  3

Quick diagram I made.

This doesn't really make sense. A species is defined to as to which fertile members can produce non-sterile offspring. As Toxic norns struggle to mate with other norn breeds, I included them as a separate species.
Grendels, ettins and norns share very similar D-DNA, which indicates that they must be closely related but C3 contradicts this, however the shared genus (Cyberlifogenis) supports this. If they have the same genus, therefore they must share a recent common ancestor.

The reproducible compatibility of these three vary game to game, breed to breed hence the classification of species is questionable, maybe subspecies would be better suited. They might not even qualify as subspecies, as their D-DNA may be too similar.

As the C1 norn, and C1 grendel share nearly identical D-DNA, I propose to classify them as one species. Looking very different is not enough to classify them as separate species as many dogs look very distinct from one another but they are still the same species.

 
Wingheart

Wingheart
New Zealand  


  3/17/2021  1

Ettins, grendels, and norns can't naturally interbreed despite their similarity- presumably in-universe this involves some change in sperm/egg recognition or some other prezygotic mechanism, and if the sperm is artificially inserted into the egg it works.

Also I'd say that TWBs are a different species from vanilla creatures, and original Dream and Butterfly norns also a different species, for the same reason as Toxics - producing non-viable offspring (sliders etc)

 
FlyingEttiNorn

FlyingEttiNorn
United States  


  3/17/2021  1

C1's Hippy Norns are acknowledged by their creator as being a new species since they can't interbreed. by that logic the different C2 brain edits have speciated too
 
cyborg

cyborg



  3/17/2021

Good point Wingheart. I forgot that they can’t naturally interbreed. That really complicates things as the creatures are artificial creations. If I genetically modify a group of dogs (which I’ll call Delta) to be unable to breed with dogs outside the group, does that make them a new species? Or maybe that doesn’t count as it’s a limit created by an advanced civilisation instead of the prezygotic isolation being natural.
 
MuppetBoy

MuppetBoy
United Kingdom  

 visit MuppetBoy's website: Geatville
  3/19/2021

There are many definitions of what constitutes "a species" interbreed-ability is only one.

The fact that theya re genetically created species/breeds by Shee (or us) means there's a lot of horizontal gene transfer, so it will be hard to calculate phylogeny.

Maybe by bases in common? at least amongst the norns, grendels, ettins, shee and geats that could be done

 
cyborg

cyborg



  3/20/2021  1

Good idea Muppetboy.

In the meantime, I made a norn breed family tree. Any corrections?



 
FlyingEttiNorn

FlyingEttiNorn
United States  


  3/20/2021

Don't forget that before Ron Norns there was the norn you can see in full.spr. mostly the same except for a poofy tail (and the palette is garbled)
 
Dragoler
Wrong Banshee

Dragoler
United Kingdom  

 visit Dragoler's website: TWB Development Thread
  3/20/2021

Bondi and Hardman Norns are from parallel universes which makes pinning down ancestry harder.

Creator of the TWB/TCB genome base.

 
I_am_THEdragon

I_am_THEdragon
Australia  


  3/20/2021

Dragoler wrote:
Bondi and Hardman Norns are from parallel universes which makes pinning down ancestry harder.



On a bit of a tangent here, but I find it it a bit ironic that the parallel world named after an Australian beach is the one that ISN'T infested with dangerous reptiles.

 
Papriko
Peppery One

Papriko
Germany  


  3/21/2021

Perhaps it was something like bizarro-Australia?

Lets play plants! Photosynthesis... Photosynthesis... Photosynthesis...
 
cyborg

cyborg



  3/26/2021

The lore is inconsistent.

As the Ron norn and the unreleased glitch norn are the originals, we can infer that this is how Shee bred norns look like.

The length of the norn's snout is longer, the eyes appear smaller and closer together.

Then I think we humans (Handish) selectively bred the Ron norns to be more cute in human standards resulting in new norn breeds with short snorts, wider set and bigger eyes.

However C3 contradicts this by having norns that look nothing like Ron norns and more like the more cuter norns. Why would alien cute correspond to human cute?

Albia is suppose to be alien yet has fauna and flora of earth origin.

 
FlyingEttiNorn

FlyingEttiNorn
United States  


  3/26/2021  1

I've always interpreted it as the C1 norns being the Shee-bred descendants of Ron norns and, as the shee's aesthetic senses evolved (I guess), they made all the breeds they took onto the Shee Ark super colorful
 
cyborg

cyborg



  4/5/2021  1



I'm not doing ettins because there's barely any official ettins breeds.

I think since Grendels and Ettins share similar reproduction with Grendel and Ettin Mothers respectively, they are more closely related to each other than Norns.

I'm not sure what's up with the Mothers. It's like asexual reproduction. Asexual reproduction is essentially cloning but Mothers don't clone themselves, they clone Creatures. Mothers seem to be related to the Muco and Incubator agent.

Are Mothers alive or just some kind of cyborg bio machine things? The Ettin Mothers, C3 Grendel mother, and Incubator agent are obviously machines. The Muco is a cyborg. This calls the seemingly biological nature of the C1 Grendel Mother into question. To add to the confusion, the C3 Grendel Mother's help text implies it has a will of its own.

Mothers doing the reproduction instead of the Grendels and Ettins themselves does give the Shee more control over the genetics and population of the Grendels and Ettins. Maybe the Shee are control freaks?

 


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