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Room emitters   
Malkin

Malkin
Australia  
Manager


 visit Malkin's website: Malkin's page at CWiki
  6/23/2009

Is it possible to have more than one emitter per room, emitting the same thing? I'm experimenting with adding emitters to C2toDS, and some of the room divisions seem rather largish to my novice eye.

My TCR Norns
 
clohse
Mad Scientist

clohse
United States  

 visit clohse's website: Clohse's page at the CWiki
  6/23/2009  1

Yes, I always placed mine sort of close together. For example, I would have probably put three across the bottom level of the meso in DS. I'm not sure if there is any kind of rule on how close they should be.

Clohse


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Malkin

Malkin
Australia  
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  6/23/2009

Thank you clohse! :D I saw you'd made a Montu Emitters agent for the Monturarrium, and I thought I'd try and adapt it for C2toDS, to make C2toDS more habitable. I'm using Moe's Room Changer to see the room divisions in C2toDS with the green and blue and red lines. :)

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clohse
Mad Scientist

clohse
United States  

 visit clohse's website: Clohse's page at the CWiki
  6/23/2009

Yeah, that room changer would have been helpful. I used gamewares caos tool and just eyeballed them into a live game. Poor Norns, the lights kept flashing on and off.

CLohse's Norns at the Creatures Repository
 
Malkin

Malkin
Australia  
Manager


 visit Malkin's website: Malkin's page at CWiki
  6/23/2009

lol, poor things! XD

another question - when you're adding soily sorts of emitters (soil moisture and nutrients), do you add them to the blue-ringed rooms or the green-ringed rooms? The green-ringed rooms often have a soil type associated with them.




Apparently you add them to the greenringed ones, after having set them to a soil type.


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Moe

Moe
United States  

 visit Moe's website: Creatures 2 to Docking Station
  7/6/2009  1

Yes, you add emitters to the green rooms set with a soil type. That unfortunately means that a Norn might be "walking through" 'normal sand' or whatever the soil/room type is, but this is how CL set it up.

Blue "rooms" are actually not rooms at all, rather, they are the absence of rooms, defining where the "green" rooms meet dead space and do not form another room/are not adjacent to another room. The green lines are actually showing you where one room meets another.

Sometimes the lines will be red or yellow (if memory serves). Red lines mean that the permeability between those rooms is null, in that no objects can pass that line. Yellow lines mean that the permeability is something else, which may or may not allow Norns or objects set on a certain plane to pass through (think “wooden platforms in Creatures 3” where the apples would sometimes land on, and other times fall through, the platforms). You would have to use the room editor or CAOS to tell what the permeability is actually set too, but in the case of setting up nutrients, you probably won’t need to know. :)

When adding emitters to one of these green rooms, only add one per room. The game fills them like a cup. In the image above, you see there are four green rooms fully visible. Adding one, say “light” emitter to the room on the far left will cause that room to “fill” with light, and the green room next to it will start filling also, and it will overflow like this so on and so forth to other rooms until it reaches maximum entropy and there’s nothing left to spill. If you’re using my Room Changer tool, you’ve probably already observed this.

If the room was alone with no adjacent rooms, it would fill with light very quickly and top off at some rather high point (though probably not the maximum of 1.000 CA value, as all rooms and CA values do have some entropy into nothingness). Some properties like nutrients don’t flow as well as say, light, and they might slowly trickle from room to room and eventually “die off” quicker.

With respects to placing emitters, let’s say that hypothetically you place a nutrient emitter in the far left room, and you notice that after several minutes of gameplay, there are nutrients in the other rooms, but not the one on the far right because the spillover died off at the room before. In this case, you might add another nutrient emitter to the room on the far right, or even a room or two over further (anticipating more falloff/trickle).

CA values will not trickle through “blue” rooms, as they are not rooms and are not capable of holding CA values. Also, the size of a "green" room does not matter, it will fill at the same rate as any other green room and trickle accordingly.

I hope this helps. :) Feel free to ask more questions.


 
clohse
Mad Scientist

clohse
United States  

 visit clohse's website: Clohse's page at the CWiki
  7/7/2009

Thanks Moe! (I learned by trial and error, so I could not have possibly explained it that well.)

What I did was open up the !meso environment.cos file and change the value of va00 to 1 to see how far apart the emitters were placed in DS. I just then used that as a rough estimate when placing other emitters. Just don't forget to change va00 back to 0 or you will forever have these red boxes all over the place. not pretty.

chris


CLohse's Norns at the Creatures Repository
 
Malkin

Malkin
Australia  
Manager


 visit Malkin's website: Malkin's page at CWiki
  7/7/2009

Wow, thanks! That cup analogy really helped me to understand how the CAs flow... And I didn't know about changing the va00 to see the emitters, that helps a lot too! :D

Chris, why do you have clac 0 in your code?

new: simp 1 1 5800 "blnk" 1 va00 8000
attr 16
emit 1 1
clac 0
mvto 2775 11326


I've uploaded what I've done so far, this will make the area immediately around the incubator much more habitable. link


My TCR Norns
 
clohse
Mad Scientist

clohse
United States  

 visit clohse's website: Clohse's page at the CWiki
  7/10/2009

I just copied the code for the emitters from the ones in the file I listed.

But...
I looked up the CLAK command and I think the CLAK 0 activates the emitter to start emitting. It sends an activate 1 and I think scrp 1000 starts the emitter.


CLohse's Norns at the Creatures Repository
 
RisenAngel
Sanely Insane

RisenAngel
United States  
Manager


 visit RisenAngel's website: The Realm
  7/12/2009  1

Actually, the CLAC command determines what happens when the hand clicks on an agent. For example, CLAC 0 would make the agent perform the Activate 1 script when clicked on, while CLAC 1 would make the agent perform the Activate 2 script. I don't think the command actually sends a message to activate on its own, otherwise other agents with the command in their installation scripts (some toys, for example) would fire that script right away upon injection.

Why the DS emitters have them is beyond me, considering they don't have an activate 1 script. Script 1000 does start the emitter, but it's triggered through another .cos file, entitled "zz mesa light and heat." It says this:

** Tell the Lights to Light Up
enum 1 1 150
mesg wrt+ targ 1000 1 0 0
next
** Tell the Heaters to Heat Up
enum 1 1 151
mesg wrt+ targ 1000 .95 0 0
next


Hopefully, I didn't ramble about stuff you already knew and was helpful in some way.



~ The Realm ~
Risen Angel's Creatures Blog


 
Ghosthande
Prodigal Sock

Ghosthande
United States  

 visit Ghosthande's website: Breeders Beware
  7/12/2009

GrendelMan's right. But aren't the emitters invisible anyways? Maybe the command is a leftover from when the game was being built or something?


 
clohse
Mad Scientist

clohse
United States  

 visit clohse's website: Clohse's page at the CWiki
  7/13/2009

You are probably right that it was leftover. I am just getting back into DS and Caos after wandering off for a while. It slow in coming back to what I used to know.

Also, yes, the emitters are invisible (to us as well as the in game creatures) unless you change that va00 value in that file I mentioned above. Then the emitters appear as red boxes. Not click able to anything, just lets you see where they are placed.


CLohse's Norns at the Creatures Repository
 
Malkin

Malkin
Australia  
Manager


 visit Malkin's website: Malkin's page at CWiki
  7/13/2009

I really like that va00-blnk trick, clohse, I can see what I'm doing! :D This is what the va00-blnk trick looks like ingame (with room viewing provided by Moe's Room Changer):



My TCR Norns
 
Ghosthande
Prodigal Sock

Ghosthande
United States  

 visit Ghosthande's website: Breeders Beware
  7/17/2009

So how do you measure CAs anyways? This is something I'd like to know more about. Like Moe's example, of noticing that nutrients have spread into other rooms... how would you notice that they're there? Is there some way to "see" the CAs, or measure their existence?


 
Moe

Moe
United States  

 visit Moe's website: Creatures 2 to Docking Station
  7/17/2009  1

My agent, Room Changer, allows you to measure the CA’s of a room. You can get it here at CC.com.

Moreover, using the official Map Editor you can much more visually see the CA’s of any room in the world, even dynamically refreshed.

If you want to know the technical side of it, how to do it scriptually, you first grab a room position at a set of coordinates with the grap (posx) (posy) command, and then set a variable to the CA value using the Prop command, then have something display that variable. It would look something like:
[Forgive me if my explanations are too basic. I don't know your level of coding know-how. :)]


Setv va00 Grap posx posy - Set va00 to the room ID at coordinates X, Y

Setv va01 prop va00 1 - set va01 to the CA value at the room ID we just defined as va00, and check property 1 (light)


The next thing you would do is tell the agent to target say, one of its text boxes and display the value.
So let’s say you’ve got a fixed text box on your compound agent marked as part one. Your code would look something like this:

Part 1 - Target part 1

Ptxt vtos va01 - Change the text to va01, where vtos is a variable to string conversion code, as text boxes can only display strings, not integers or floating point numbers. :)


I hope that answer your question. If you have any specific questions or want more explanation, let me know.

 
Ghosthande
Prodigal Sock

Ghosthande
United States  

 visit Ghosthande's website: Breeders Beware
  7/18/2009

Awesome. Thanks Moe. That helps tons. :)


 
Malkin

Malkin
Australia  
Manager


 visit Malkin's website: Malkin's page at CWiki
  7/18/2009

How would you go about making seasons, or a day/night cycle?

My TCR Norns
 
Ghosthande
Prodigal Sock

Ghosthande
United States  

 visit Ghosthande's website: Breeders Beware
  7/18/2009

Is it possible to give an emitter a timer script that regulates when and what it emits? If so, I'd start by making a controller agent, and giving the emitters a timer script (assuming all emitters have the same , for simplicity's sake). The controller agent would at regular intervals change a variable used by the emitters to a value meaning night/day. Then you could just tell the emitters to emit more light/heat/whatever when the variable indicated it was day, and less when it indicated it was night. Seasons could work basically the same way, it would just mean using more variables.

For a wrapping metaroom like C1/C2/etc., different sides of the planet could even have different day/night cycles. For example, have something saying "if your POSX is greater than this but less than that, and the variable is set to night..." although it seems even CLabs wished to avoid the complexity, since the diskworld used the same time zone everywhere.


I'm not sure if it is possible to use timers in conjunction with emitters, but this is the strategy I'm intending to use for KT.



 
Moe

Moe
United States  

 visit Moe's website: Creatures 2 to Docking Station
  7/18/2009  1

It is possible to give emitters a timer script, and you can change how much they are emitting, or even what they are emitting. A seasons and day/night cycle would be made very similarly to how you proposed. Make a controller with a timer perhaps setting game variables that the emitters are programmed in their timer script to respond too at certain intervals (or just have the controller message them directly when the time is right for some change to occur). You might discriminate amongst the emitters by assigning specially set variables in their install scripts so that, for example, heat emitters emit oh-so-much less during the winter unless they are say, near a volcano!

The reason worlds like C1 and C2 didn’t have different time cycles is because the world’s, though astronomically impossible, disc shape prevents the surface from ever being say, completely dark on one side (see Steve Grand’s notes). The obvious small size of the world is evidence enough that light and infrared waves would never completely dissipate, but wrap through the atmosphere effectively lighting even the side of Albia facing away from the sun. It is this phenomenon that probably led the Shee to believe light was a scenton, so slow that it is never went dark (as documented in the help file for the Creatures 3 smell emitter).

It's great to see people still developing, if you need anything else, just ask.

 
Ghosthande
Prodigal Sock

Ghosthande
United States  

 visit Ghosthande's website: Breeders Beware
  7/19/2009

Wow, that room changer is so helpful. Wish I'd known about that before. o.o;


Is there a specific way you have to time an emitter? If I try, say, telling an emitter that "doif ov00 eq 1 / emit 1 1" in its timer script, it doesn't emit anything at all, even though I've already specified (either in the injection part or at the beginning of the timer script) that ov00 does equal 1.



 
Moe

Moe
United States  

 visit Moe's website: Creatures 2 to Docking Station
  7/19/2009  1

There shouldn’t be that much too it. I know it’s possible. Another tool I’ve been working on changes it’s emissions dynamically. In fact, that example you had should have worked. Is it possible you forgot something simple like, “tick 1” in the emitter’s install script? I’ve done that myself on the odd occasion. XD Or maybe the species numbers don’t match or something simple? Even, perhaps you forgot to change Room Changer's CA indicator to the appropriate number?

(Which I should note that Room Changer starts counting at Light (CA 1), but the first CA (CA0) is Sound.)

It’s possible that not putting the emission in floating point format doesn’t work either (that is, instead of emit 1 1, it would be, emit 1 1.00000). Without looking at the whole script, it’s hard to say.

 
Ghosthande
Prodigal Sock

Ghosthande
United States  

 visit Ghosthande's website: Breeders Beware
  7/19/2009

Is it possible you forgot something simple like, “tick 1” in the emitter’s install script?



That was probably what I missed. I did fiddle with the Room Changer to make sure it was set right, and the species numbers were correct, and I even tried it with a decimal, but I do have a tendency to forget to add "tick 1" to things, especially things like emitters that don't normally need them. O.O I'll have to test it tomorrow and make sure.



 
Malkin

Malkin
Australia  
Manager


 visit Malkin's website: Malkin's page at CWiki
  8/12/2009

Enquiring minds want to know! I've put in emitters all the way around the C2 Albia, but I can't nut out a day/night or seasonal cycle. Would anyone be interested in the file 'as is' to develop it further, or just to enjoy being able to grow plants in C2's Albia?

My TCR Norns
 
clohse
Mad Scientist

clohse
United States  

 visit clohse's website: Clohse's page at the CWiki
  8/12/2009

Have you looked at SEAN to discern between your seasons? That's how I got the 5 in 1 tree to produce different fruit.

CLohse's Norns at the Creatures Repository
 
Malkin

Malkin
Australia  
Manager


 visit Malkin's website: Malkin's page at CWiki
  8/15/2009

Is SEAN global, or do I have to kick-start it off? Did C2 have a 'wet winter' or a more monsoonal climate?

My TCR Norns
 
clohse
Mad Scientist

clohse
United States  

 visit clohse's website: Clohse's page at the CWiki
  8/15/2009

SEAN is changed by the game variable engine_LengthOfSeasonInDays.
But the Length is set to zero by default. I haven't ever dit, and I noticed that the seasons seem to be quite long in DS. (I always meant to look into changing it when I made that tree, because it took forever for any of the changes to happen.)

Its been so long since I played C2 that I really don't remember the climate.


CLohse's Norns at the Creatures Repository
 


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