 |
welcome, guest |
| Development Forum | ||||
 |
| |||
 Lurhstaap    |
I'm having a real problem gengineering because some really important stuff isn't commented or labeled. The specific thing that's getting in my way right now is that when trying to make a new Instinct gene, a lot of the stuff in the lobes is unlabeled. In a couple of lobes, they are, but in the rest, inexplicably, they're not. I use Brain in a Vat whenever possible, but sometimes it just doesn't line up with what I'm seeing in the Genetics Kit, or it otherwise doesn't have the information I need. So I'm wondering if there's a list, anywhere, of what all the different options in the Instinct pulldown mean. The specific ones I need right now are probably in Tissue 3: Stim, but I'm not 100% sure of that, so a comprehensive list for all the 'tissues' would be awesome. I've done some searching but haven't come remotely close to finding such a thing, so if anyone else has it that'd be amazing. If not, what do you guys think the best way to figure it out would be? Conclude with killer catchphrase. (Lurhstaap) "This is not knowledge - this is information!" New Model Army, "Courage" |
|||
 Malkin Manager |
Which program do you mean when you say 'instinct pulldown'? My TCR Norns |
|||
Lurhstaap |
Oh, sorry, that was very unspecific. I'm talking about in the Genetics Kit when you're making a new Instinct gene. One of the pulldown menus is where you choose various categories, like one draws on the noun lobe and another the verb lobe and so on, only they're referred to as 'tissue 1, 2, 3' et cetera. Conclude with killer catchphrase. (Lurhstaap) "This is not knowledge - this is information!" New Model Army, "Courage" |
|||
Malkin Manager |
Ghosthande made a list of the ID numbers here. My TCR Norns |
|||
Lurhstaap |
Are no such lists available for the other options? Still, that's better than I had before! Conclude with killer catchphrase. (Lurhstaap) "This is not knowledge - this is information!" New Model Army, "Courage" |
|||
 Wrong Banshee Dragoler |
The only tissue that ever gets used for instincts is Tissue 2: noun. I use this list as a key, but Malkins works perfectly well. What are you trying to get your Norns to do? Creator of the TWB/TCB genome base.  |
|||
 Code Monkey evolnemesis |
If you look at the brain lobe genes themselves, you can see their lobe tissue numbers there somewhere, but the neuron numbers for specific things are definitely something that you need to look up. Verb and Noun lobes use the numbers listed in the resources above, they trigger their neurons when the word is said to the norn, or when the norn is specifically paying attention to that object or performing that action... The stim lobe triggers its neurons when just seeing an object of that type anywhere around. There are one or two more lobes that can do interesting things, and those are the situation (situ) lobe (the neurons in here tell information about the norn's situation, like whether it is falling, things about its mood or environment, if it's in a vehicle, that kind of thing), and the detail (detl) lobe (this one is quite interesting and tells details about things about whatever the norn is paying attention to... like, whether it is a creature of the same species and opposite sex, whether it's a parent, child, or sibling, and other stuff like that) The only place I knew of to look at those neurons all listed out was 'Kathira's Handbook of Digital Genetics', which was an incredible resource on Creatures genetics from all the games that existed on seeyou7.net in German and seems to be lost now. You can also look up 'CFE Family Norns' which were a breed of norns that were made by Vampess using the detail lobe to control their sex drive so that they would not breed with family. The page they are on details the neurons involved and how the genes work to accomplish that. "For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love." "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan |
|||
Lurhstaap |
I was trying to get them to retreat from sources of punishment, but I eventually discarded that specific idea as impractical since it would have too many side effects - including retreating from the hand if I ever smacked them, which I sometimes have to do for their own good - beyond my original intent. Which was to make them avoid hitting walls; it was supposed to tie in to another gene I made that gave pain, fear, and a bit of punishment when they've just hit a wall. (In the test subjects I got rid of the instinct bit but kept the stimulus, but so far they have yet to actually hit a wall, so we'll see what happens.) So it became a more general question; sometimes when I gengineer I don't have a specific idea of what I want to do ahead of time, but instead browse through the Genetics Kit and just look at options until ideas get sparked. So knowing what all that unlabeled stuff is and does is very helpful for that sort of thing. And of course for other specific ideas I may have and want to implement in the future. I've been using Brain in a Vat to look stuff up, but that program is pretty new to me, so I may be looking in the wrong places - a lot of what I found there was unlabeled, too, so it wasn't terribly helpful. It's too bad that GermanCreatures is gone... a lot of good stuff went down with that site.  I wish Internet archive services were able to be more comprehensive than they are.Conclude with killer catchphrase. (Lurhstaap) "This is not knowledge - this is information!" New Model Army, "Courage" |
|||
Wrong Banshee Dragoler |
People have attempted to fix Wallbonking a few times but unfortunately the fixes tend to make it worse. When creatures experience pain or fear from hitting a wall, they assume that whatever is causing them the stimulus must be behind them and they keep running "away from the invisible bad thing" and get trapped against the wall, all while becoming more and more distressed. The best way to deal with it would just be for them to not experience anything at all. Eventually a scent will lead them away from the wall anyway. Creator of the TWB/TCB genome base. |
|||
Lurhstaap |
Interesting - the addition of Punishment tied specifically to the wall-hit stimulus does nothing to help with that? I was hoping that would help focus their attention on the fact that hitting the wall in itself is the problem. With that said, the genome I'm editing is CFF to begin with, and I've given them a couple of new instincts and stimuli that tend to keep them active and moving, so it's not like wallbonking is a huge problem for them anyway. It was just an experiment to see what would happen. Conclude with killer catchphrase. (Lurhstaap) "This is not knowledge - this is information!" New Model Army, "Courage" |
|||
Wrong Banshee Dragoler |
Creatures can't see walls, they need to be able to focus on an object in order to associate a stimulus with it and react accordingly. There is a similar problem with water. The CFF genome adds a panic response to drowning which often helps a creature to leave the water by chance, but many will just die, being completely incapable of understanding what is killing them. Creator of the TWB/TCB genome base. |
|||
Code Monkey evolnemesis |
The default game scripts actually never even send the wall-bonk stimulus when they hit walls, it is disabled... The game just sends a 'disappointment' stimulus (which indicates any failed action), that typically adds punishment and boredom instead, to encourage them to eventually turn around by making a temporary negative association with the direction they are walking in or whatever else they think they are doing while walking that way... You would need to get modified bootstrap scripts to make the game actually send the wallbonk stimulus to creatures (but this stimulus is normally physically damaging to creatures so it can be fatal, and even though the stimulus suggests strongly that they retreat, thanks to how the engine works, they can't actually see walls as objects to retreat from...) The pain and resulting fear from the stimulus will only make them want to retreat from whatever else they can see (which, if they are walking into a wall, has to be behind them, so it only drives them to run into the wall more...) so it's probably better that they don't get the wallbonk stimulus. "For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love." "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan |
|||
Lurhstaap |
Are you sure the wallbonk is always disabled? When I silenced that gene in my aquatics they stopped being constantly in pain, terror, and dying from trying to swim around. That was the sole change I made, and yet the difference is dramatic. So -something- has to have been turned off that was happening before. Maybe my version of the game is a little old and predates an update that shut off the wallbonk effect? Conclude with killer catchphrase. (Lurhstaap) "This is not knowledge - this is information!" New Model Army, "Courage" |
|||
Code Monkey evolnemesis |
Did you have any script updates installed from this site, like the one to stop talking loops that includes a fix to the wallbonking script? Or a third party .cob to stop wallbonking? If not, it's a bit odd... if you look at the 'creaturesdoneto.cos' in the 'bootstraps' folder, you will see that by default, when the engine sends the message to a creature that it hit something, it only sends the stimulus 01... which is disappointment, and not stim 07 (hit a wall)... It is possible maybe there is something in the swimming agents that is sending the wallbonk stimulus to them under some situations though, I'm not really familiar with swimmers... "For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love." "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan |
|||
Lurhstaap |
I do have the 'stop expressing like/dislike so much' script theoretically installed, though it doesn't seem to work unless I put in a string of CAOS on the given world and I've often forgotten to do that. And I have a no-hit-the-wall agent but I don't think I had installed it on this particular world because, well, I wasn't expecting that to be a problem with swimmers. :p You mean those could be malfunctioning somehow and re-enabling the wallbonk effect? Conclude with killer catchphrase. (Lurhstaap) "This is not knowledge - this is information!" New Model Army, "Courage" |
|||
Malkin Manager |
I briefly uploaded a version of the 'stop expressing like/dislike so much' script which had the wallbonk stimulus included, but I updated it to re-exclude the wallbonk stimulus after feedback. My TCR Norns |
|||
Lurhstaap |
I'm 90% sure I have the post-exclusion version since I remember reading those comments when I downloaded it, but who knows? Computers are very complex systems and while they're mostly not -designed- to produce emergent behavior, a lifetime of using them has made me very aware that they're complex enough for emergent behavior to sometimes happen. Or just plain weird stuff. (In brief, I'm beginning to suspect it's something about this particular computer that's messing up a lot of Creatures stuff I've tried to install, that works fine for other people on other machines. It's a homebuild I'm borrowing.) Conclude with killer catchphrase. (Lurhstaap) "This is not knowledge - this is information!" New Model Army, "Courage" |
|||
Code Monkey evolnemesis |
Check your 'creatureDoneTo.cos' (I think that is the name... might be 'DS creatureDoneTo.cos' in DS) in your bootstraps folder When your game is not running, open that file in a text editor and do a search for 'stim writ'... check if any of the lines are like 'stim writ 7' or 'stim writ 07'... If so, then that is a modified version that sends the wallbonk stimulus... To manually fix it and disable the stimulus again, comment out every one of the 'stim writ 7' lines by putting an asterisk in front of them, or just delete them, and then save the file. "For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love." "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan |
|||
Lurhstaap |
Thanks very much for that! I will check when I have time. Conclude with killer catchphrase. (Lurhstaap) "This is not knowledge - this is information!" New Model Army, "Courage" |
|||
Code Monkey evolnemesis |
Lurhstaap wrote: The actual code to look for would be something like 'stim writ targ 7 1' The important thing to look for is the first number after 'stim writ' being a 7. "For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love." "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan |
|||
| downloads cobs adoptions creaturelink metarooms breeds gallery art wallpaper screenshots graphics promos sprites |
dev hack shack script reservations dev resources active projects dev forum community links advice chat polls resources |
creatchi forum bookmarks general news help development strangeo survivor |
mycaves log in register lost pw |
0 online |
| creatures caves is your #1 resource for the creatures artificial life game series: creatures, creatures 2, creatures 3, docking station, and the upcoming creatures family. contact help privacy policy terms & conditions rules donate wiki |
||||