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Qus About the German Language   
Melody

Melody
United States  


  6/22/2010

I have a few questions about the German Language.
Can someone tell e the difference between neu and neue? They both translate into the word "new". It's confusing like der,die,das,den, and dem all translate into "the" but you use them in different cases, like the Nominative Case where the word is doing something in the subject of the sentence.
Anyway, I was also wondering if all German words have a Gender and a Nominative, Accusative, Dative, and Genitive Case?
Also, how do you use German words in the Genitive Case with the words (all translating into the) des,der, and des?
One last question, how would I go about making special characters like a u with two dots over it (or whatever you call that) with my keyboard?

edit: Also, when would you capitalize letters in a sentence, I mean what words would you capitalize in this sentence, and why? der hund beiBt den mann

When would you use punctuation and why?



 
xan

xan



  6/22/2010

I can't help you with much of this but I can tell you the two dots are called an umlaut

Good luck!

 
ylukyun
Patient Pirate

ylukyun

Manager



  6/22/2010

All nouns are capital, not just proper ones. For umlauts and esszet ß you can use the alt keystrokes or a character map-like program. (You can also remap your keyboard to german but I wouldn't recommend it)

Going to let a more fluent speaker answer the rest :P

 
Papriko
Peppery One

Papriko



  6/23/2010

"neu" and "neue" are used in different cases. I'm not sure how to put this into a short and easy rule. It is one of the things you must get a feeling for.
For example do you say "Das Hemd ist neu" when you want to say "The shirt is new".
But when this shirt is doing something you use "neue". "Das neue Hemd brennt" when the new shirt is burning is an example.

Yes, all words have a gender. They are defined into feminine, masculine and neutral. Defining when a word is what I'm also not sure about. After a while you simply hear what is right or not. I'd suggest you buying a dictionary, there are all nouns listed with the right gender of "the". "Der" is masculine, "das" neutral and "die" feminine.
Beware: nouns in plural ALWAYS use "die", regardless which gender they actually have.

Yes, we also have Nominative, Genitive, Dative and Accusative.
By the Genitive you have the luck that a -s or an -es appears at the end of the noun, so it is quite easy to recognize. "Des" is used for both, masculine and neutral words. "Der" is in this special case female.

Ä, Ö and Ü are hard to make. They are default keys on German keyboards. Not bad if you have no German keyboard, some Germans also don't. In this case they make the dot-less letter and then an E after it. ä = ae, ö = oe and ü = ue.
As alternative to ß you can use ss. Not pretty, but also the official way of getting around it.


Lets play plants! Photosynthesis... Photosynthesis... Photosynthesis...
 
Melody

Melody



  6/23/2010

Thanks, guys.


 
eprillios
Geek Ettin

eprillios


 visit eprillios's website: CreaturesCommunity.net
  6/24/2010

As Papriko said, with "new" we also have different words to use. Like "De hemd is nieuw", and "De nieuwe hemd verbrandt".

Good luck Melody! :)




Geek Ettin's Lab (New!)
Bill Gates: "Be nice to nerds. Chances are you'll end up working for one."


 
LoverIan

LoverIan



  7/16/2010

Melody, I think I can help you, but I've probably been beaten to the point. From what I understand from Pappy, and from a friend of mine in the real world, German uses multiple versions of a word, mainly nouns.
The versions depend on if it's feminine, masculine, or gender neutral. It's similar to how in Spanish and French, you have Le, La, Les, Las, etc., when you have the word "the", when using it for something, based upon it's gender affiliation.
So basically, neu and neue, are gender affiliated, like the german versions, french versions, and spanish versions of the word "the".
From what I understand, I believe most german words have multiple forms based on gender, nominative, accusative, genitive, dative, etc. I didn't know there was a nominative form, or the others you listed, so that bit is new to me.

I'm sorry, but I can't answer the last two, as my knowledge of german is limited. I do know the language is, like most European languages, one of the romance languages. I also hear it is very guttural. Not to mention, from what I've been told, when you translate German to English, or vice versa, no matter which language you view it from, you're going to notice the grammar has been butchered (minor butchering at best, I'm guessing), and it looks so wrong, especially if you translate it back. Along with that, I hear that the order of the words (basically this is mainly how the grammar is butchered, I guess) is often flip flopped, randomized, or something along those lines, and that there are conjunctions of all different sorts, where words are just spliced together, possibly not even the conjunctions you'd think (it's, I'm, are the ones I guess people think of, but along with that, I hear they make conjunctions out of normal or random words).
Then again, this is all what I've heard a little while back, along with my own speculation and guessing.

An example of how it changes when translated, your original sentence, equals this when translated to English (using Yahoo's Babel Fish):
the dog beiBt the man
Which correctly translates to (babel fish made an error I believe):
The dog bit the man.

I think with punctuation, you just do what comes naturally. I don't know if there are any special rules in German, but I assume it's like in English:
. - Ends normal sentences. Used in statements, and other things. It also seperates two complete ideas/sentences. In the case of a person using short sentences that could be re-arranged or combined to form a complete idea, the periods are often like commas, ex:
During 1912, a battle was fought. It's often thought of as a horrible battle. Many people died. 342 innocent people died. 638 soldiers died from both sides. The total was 980 deaths. Survivors did not recover easy. Many survivors suffered from mental problems. Survivors often suffered from trauma, or paranoia.
A better paragraph, where the sentences are complete ideas:
During 1912, a horrible battle was fought. 980 total people died, 342 being innocent, and 638 were soldiers. Survivors had trouble recovering, often suffering from mental problems, such as paranoia, or trauma.
?-Used in inquisitive sentences. One would end a question correctly with this. Ex(Wrong):
What time is it in Japan.
EX(Right):
What time is it in Japan?
!-Used in sentences with strong feelings. Usually used to express strong opinions, emotions, and otherwise. It's also used to describe fast things, or instant things.
EX(Wrong):
The cat ate the fish flavored meow mix!
EX(Right):
Suddenly, everybody had disappeared!
I hate you all so much!

So I guess that's it. Right now I'm reading the other posts, so, what Papriko said is what I heard from Papriko, and my friend, well, only certain parts, the other bits I haven't really heard about. One thing I've never heard is the ae, oe, and ue, which, explain things for me a bunch.

Good luck Melody!


beep
 
Papriko
Peppery One

Papriko



  7/16/2010

What could be is that Babel Fish also got a bit confused by the B in your example. B and ß are a difference, a huge one. By talking with people it might work, but translators terrible get confused about it. Same with A-Ä, O-Ö and U-Ü. I already made suggestions how to avoid it. It doesn't work always, but in most cases.

Another usage for ! is the Imperative. When you give a direct order is it usually followed by a ! which makes that again clearer.
Even when your mum tells you to eat your vegetables in a normal tone will it look in written form as when she shouted: "Iss dein Gemüse!"


Lets play plants! Photosynthesis... Photosynthesis... Photosynthesis...
 
LoverIan

LoverIan



  7/16/2010

Yeah, I figured that out. When I entered beisst instead of beißt, it registered as bites, not bit. But when I did beit or bet, it didn't register as bit or anything, though bet registered as pray. I was forgetting the whole gender affiliation bit when I entered beit and bet.

Oh yeah, I forgot the "direct order" clause with !, silly me.
Not to mention, babel fish is horrible when it comes to translating things. I tried to see how messed up I could get Melody's original sentence, by translating from german to english. Didn't change. But, I noticed I can use babel fish to translate from german to french, and french to english, so, I started doing translations across those three languages, and it got really messed up.
See, it's horrible about in french, when there is an apostrophe, it keeps it in the next version, ruining any further translation. Not to mention, it can't translate any form of the in french, to another language, it stays as les, or la, or le, etc.

To illustrate how bad it is, I found out about the translator when I was on a pokemon site, and one of their jokes was that when you translate things, there are errors. If you translate things multiple times, it's even worse.
BUT, if you translate an entire fanfiction, into one language from another, it ends up with so many errors, it's funny. It also taught me when using Babel Fish, the translations will always be funny, or just messed up.
If you translate something from one language, to another, and to another (or alternatively, back to the original), it ends up really messed up.


beep
 
Papriko
Peppery One

Papriko



  7/17/2010

"beit" is completely meaningless and "bet" was interpreted as "pray" because it comes from "beten" and not from "beißen". "Beten" means "(to) pray".
With "avoiding the special letters" I meant that replacing stuff I mentioned before (Ö = OE) and not completely removing. That also is fatal for translating.

Here is a list of the conjugations of "beißen". It is all in German, but I think not too much skills are needed. Here is it again helpful that some German and English words sound very similar.


Lets play plants! Photosynthesis... Photosynthesis... Photosynthesis...
 


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