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Creatures 3 Genome Project   1 | 2 | ... | 4 | 5 | 6 | ... | 14 | 15
evolnemesis
Code Monkey

evolnemesis
United States  


  2/4/2015  1

Newest version of the genome is available!

Evo Norns contain the newest version of the CFF genome, and are also nature lovers.

Full write-up soon... in a nutshell, the additions to CFF are some fixes and tweaks to the new hunger overwhelmsion and fullness systems, a couple of 'natural' behaviors like a bit of a bolt reflex when hit, a nesting behavior with eggs, and a small tweak to their reproduction that probably won't have too much of an effect. Basically it just makes libido lowerer, a chemical they have when not fertile and that they naturally get after mating that suppresses ability to mate, last longer in their systems (I probably could increase its half-life by a lot more, really). I also made it so that buildups of vitamins C and E leave their systems eventually, which is a bit more natural than one shot lasting a norn's entire life, by adjusting the half-lives of these chemicals.

I will also update the genome comparison near the top of this thread.

The Evo Norns have their own additional changes I don't really consider fixes, mainly a bunch of additional instincts involving bugs, plants, flowers, and critters, a tweak to make them like traveling more, and of course their pigment and appearance genes.


"For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love."
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan

 
evolnemesis
Code Monkey

evolnemesis
United States  


  2/4/2015

Interesting results already with these...

I had a female that started liking a younger male, she was feeling friendly I guess, she pushed him a few times without much response, but then I swear she started suggesting 'maybe push norn X' to him when he wasn't saying anything about being friendly or bored or lonely, he wasn't even expressing or asking for anything. I've never seen creatures suggest things directly to each other unasked (I've seen them say things that other creatures took as orders, and even seen them seem to figure out that they could do that, but I've never seen them refer to each other by name to tell each other to try something other than as a response to an expressed need...)

I thought I was seeing things or just missed something he said, but she did it again after that when I was watching them closely. The only thing he said during that time was that he was happy (he was mucking around with the auto-teacher machine).

My first couple of norns showed interesting behaviors from the new weak instincts, the female got obsessed with stingers and would always play with them, sometimes get stung, but then just grab them and walk around with them anyway, she even ate a few... she seems to like them okay, she has them every now and then, but they are not her favorite food, she does love playing with them though. The first thing the male did when he was hatched is start pushing on a flower for a few minutes, looking quite happy with himself. He likes toys too, he started playing the didgeridoo a lot and occasionally he picks up and tickles or kicks around one of my norn plushies, but all in all he keeps himself pretty happy with whatever is around, including playing with critters as a way to reduce loneliness. He hasn't eaten any of them yet though, luckily for the critters he likes playing with them more and has plenty of other food around.


"For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love."
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan

 
ShadowGammaD

ShadowGammaD
United States  

 visit ShadowGammaD's website: Twitch
  2/4/2015

might remake the genome I had, was the grendels of minimorder(expanded to norns and ettins) except with a whole lot of alterations. basically they really felt urge to follow any command given at any time (had whole screen of breeds following directions-followed genome guide) also very intelligent on own*was a attempt at genoming a fix for flying swimming agent doors issue etc which only semi helped. don't have it anymore though cause had to reformat comp. always interested in trying out genomes though!

A knight is sworn to valour
His heart knows only virtue
His blade defends the helpless
His might upholds the weak
His word speaks only truth
His wrath undoes the wicked. ~Dragon Heart (By wrath I mean the edit button lol)
Can Contact me on twitter if need https://twitter.com/ShadowGammaD
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/user/shadowgammadraco

 
evolnemesis
Code Monkey

evolnemesis
United States  


  2/4/2015

GoMs look very interesting, I really should look into them, from what I know about them it seems a lot of work went into their genome for sure.

"For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love."
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan

 
evolnemesis
Code Monkey

evolnemesis
United States  


  2/5/2015

Have to change one instinct in the Evos...

They have a stim from 'eating plants' from the normal C3 genome, giving them nutrition from eating plants, leading me to think that they should have an instinct for eating plants... but, they can't actually eat things classified as 'plant'... Eating 'leaf' does seem possible, and apparently it will also trigger that stim, so I need to change the Evo's new instinct letting them look at plants as food to refer to 'leaf' objects only (this should also mean that among other things they can eat the grass in the norn terrarium like some critters can)...

For whatever reason, though, stims are often more general than the actual classifications and possible instincts... for example, both 'push' and 'pull' for 'gadget' and 'machine' and 'tool' are included in the 'interacted with machine' stim, but a creature can still have separate instincts about interacting with those objects, and different instincts for pulling than pushing, even though in practice they really get the same exact feeling when doing all these interactions because the stim is the same.


"For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love."
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan

 
ThunderOrb

ThunderOrb
United States  


  2/5/2015  1

Can't wait for an Ettin release with all of these improvements. Will be interesting to see how the changes interact with their differing genome/instincts/likes.

Remember that one time? Yeah, you do. You totally do.
 
evolnemesis
Code Monkey

evolnemesis
United States  


  2/8/2015  1

Any opinions on the Evo Norns? I am liking them a lot... Their new fullness seems to be working great, their hunger overwhelmsion seems to be working fine, I even like all the new instincts and I think they might make sense to keep for all the CFF versions. The instincts are pretty weak anyway, but they do make them have really varied interests as well as being pretty independent and good at keeping themselves happy. They just have a lot more ideas of natural norn-like things to try so they spend less time drooling on themselves thinking of impossible stuff they don't even know how to try to do. Plus it adds more instinct slots to mutate into weird things or for geneticists to mess with.

I think I've done most of the fixes that are possible though... the official CFF 1.0 is pretty much here, and unless anyone has any other ideas for things to add to it, it's probably time for me to make CFF versions of each of the official breeds and do a final writeup with instructions for converting breeds (it's a LOT of changes...)

Ettins and Grendels will be next after I make the Norn breeds.


"For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love."
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan

 
ham5ter

ham5ter
Germany  

 visit ham5ter's website: Creatures.Ham5ter.de
  2/8/2015

Oh noes, no more "eventually eat Portal [NAMEHERE]" ?

I liked those impossible thoughts XD


moep!

 
evolnemesis
Code Monkey

evolnemesis
United States  


  2/8/2015

well I'm sure they still have them, they just have a few more reasonable thoughts in their heads... The instincts are pretty weak though, about the same as the push dispenser instinct, they won't necessarily follow them, and they can still get preoccupied with stuff like portals or whatnot :) Though I don't think they will do it to the point of starvation anymore. It just sort of acts more like a set of things they might naturally think of doing... like looking at a bug flying around and wanting to play with it or grab it, that kind of thing. Or a flower, a critter, etc., but they are only like faint ideas.

I find it makes them still smart, but less robotlike and more likely to do different stuff and develop their own kind of quirks and personalities. They really have to try the different stuff and get the instinct reinforced a lot by experience to really get into it, otherwise it's more like meh, that's sort of interesting, but they still go about whatever they would normally do without the instinct usually. Mine were staring at a nest for minutes at a time, going 'look nest', and another one later said 'right leaf' and I know no instinct was doing that... it was just obsessed with a leaf for some unknown nornish reason, lol...


"For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love."
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan

 
evolnemesis
Code Monkey

evolnemesis
United States  


  2/8/2015  2

I have one more idea... emotional responses to alcohol.

In C1, norns were affected by alcohol in a few ways, their liver was slowed, but also, there were 2 genes causing emotional changes... according to the gene notes, one made males get angry when intoxicated, and one made females get 'randy' when intoxicated.

I was thinking of bringing back something similar in C3/DS except, instead of dividing the effects by male or female, I can do it by variant... this way, creatures can have a random tendency... like some will get angry, some really happy, some will get 'friendly', some will feel very lonely, some might get extra drunk, some will hold their liquor with no special effects, that kind of thing... I think it would be interesting to have a party like that... some would be crying about being lonely, and trying to get uncomfortably close to others, some would be beating up other creatures or yelling about being angry, some would be pushing on everyone, some would be stumbling around... I think that's a cool idea and it gives the norns some unpredictable extra personality (man, Snowball is a mean drunk, who'd have known? She's usually such a sweet norn...)


"For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love."
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan

 
ylukyun
Axe Maniac Diva

ylukyun

Manager


 visit ylukyun's website: Engineering
  2/8/2015

That's a great idea. :D
 
Nutter
Senior Wrangler

Nutter
United Kingdom  


  2/8/2015

I love the idea. But isn't variant type set across the genome, and defaults to 0? I'm just thinking of how colour displays - I got some very washed-out norns when some of the colour genes mutated to a variant, but the genome variant stayed at 0...
 
evolnemesis
Code Monkey

evolnemesis
United States  


  2/8/2015  2

Already on it :) I think I have a decent set of traits based on the C1 traits.

1: Mean drunk (++anger,+sleepiness)
2: Friendly drunk (++sex drive,+sleepiness)
3: Lonely drunk (++loneliness,+sleepiness)
4: Happy drunk (+reward,+sleepiness)
5: lightweight (++tiredness,+sleepiness)
6: hard drinker (no effect)
7: occasional drinker (+sleepiness)
8: stumbling drunk (alcohol stays in system longer, but no other effect than drunken gait)

The happy drunk is going to feel like he is always doing the right thing... which I have to test, but I think it should make them suitably more retarded at least, and he should be in a good mood at the same time.

The rest I think are pretty good, about 1/4 of norns will not get sleepy at all from alcohol, about 1/8th will pretty much pass right out from it, and the others will get varying effects.


"For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love."
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan

 
evolnemesis
Code Monkey

evolnemesis
United States  


  2/8/2015  1

Nutter wrote:
I love the idea. But isn't variant type set across the genome, and defaults to 0? I'm just thinking of how colour displays - I got some very washed-out norns when some of the colour genes mutated to a variant, but the genome variant stayed at 0...



Well, what happened is the gene mutated to a variant besides 0, so that now only 1/8th of norns with that genome would display that gene. 0 in a gene means to activate that gene for all variants, anything else would mean the gene only activates for that one variant. A C3/DS creature, when it is born, is always assigned a variant number from 1-8 randomly.

So for my drunkenness reaction genes, I just need to make 8 genes, 1 for each variant {1-8} and set the variant number on them different for each one (actually I only need to make 7, because I am leaving one variant to just have the original behavior). If one of those variant genes mutates to another variant or gets deleted, then that variant will also get the original behavior again (the stumbling drunk).


"For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love."
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan

 
Grendel_Man
Sanely Insane

Grendel_Man
United States  
Manager


 visit Grendel_Man's website: The Realm
  2/8/2015

Another suggestion: I'd suggest adding anger to the drives managed by the Hunger Overwhelmsion organ. In my own experience at least, anger can be pretty overwhelming, if all the hardman norns who constantly scream about their anger at the detriment of everything else are any indication.

Then again, it may not be really necessary in these since they're not as prone to just standing there complaining. I do think it's worth considering, though.


Note: The underscore in my username is supposed to be a space - it's "Grendel Man," not "Grendel_Man."
~ The Realm ~
Grendel Man's Creatures Blog


 
evolnemesis
Code Monkey

evolnemesis
United States  


  2/8/2015

Anger is controlled by the organ... All drives except pain and fear are overwhelmed when hunger gets high enough.

pain and fear have their own overwhelming organs and priorities from the base genome, and it makes sense for those to be able to overrule hunger.

EDIT: I was wrong, been a while, lol... yeah, doesn't seem any of the other drive overwhelmsion organs deal with anger either.... there's not even an anger maintenance reaction in the constitutive drive maintenance organ. I think it is because it is related to fight or flight, there is a fear-anger conversion based on adrenaline, and fear is already dealt with. I will have to see if that's a problem though... the Hardmans will definitely be a test of that.


"For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love."
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan

 
Missmysterics

Missmysterics



  2/8/2015

Does happy drunk mean they continually get reward for being drunk? I don't think that's such a good idea, it could mess up the learning process. Maybe have being drunk reduce some drives like boredom, loneliness or crowdedness instead?

I really like the idea of these "drunk variants" by the way, quite charming, heh.


I remember when I was talking to you on Twitch.TV you said you can't think of much more to add to CFFs without them being incompatible with other creatures, what changes were you considering that you thought might be too radical? (or are you going for it anyway?)

 
evolnemesis
Code Monkey

evolnemesis
United States  


  2/8/2015

Well, some of the things in C1/C2 had effects from alcohol on the liver, and excess adipose buildup on the heart, and in order to do those, I would need to put extra genes inside those organs, and that would move all the genes around so they wouldn't line up with other genomes. Same goes for certain kinds of edits that would make their immune systems more realistic or make their reactions to toxins more detailed and realistic. Also, there are some brain edits involving getting back missing words and drives and detailed phrasing from C2 that are just a bit beyond my ability.

As far as the happy drunks.. Yeah, I'm not sure, it's kind of a steady very slow stream of reward while they are drunk, that's one I don't know about... I'm not at all sure it's a good idea, but I figured I'd test it and see what happens... I figured it would be noticeable when watching them at least, as for it affecting learning, the effect shouldn't be too bad, I think... it's not in a stim or instinct where it is being associated with anything... They should just kind of get a little more confirmation on stuff they try, enjoy everything they do just a little bit more, and act a little bit stupider while intoxicated, maybe a little more likely to try and repeat actions, I'd think, but it shouldn't be permanent if it's not part of the learning process. The amount of reward is very little compared to an actual reward like a tickle too, or the amount that their drives go down from many stims, and it's spread out over time. It may end up not even being noticeable.

Other than that, reducing drives is certainly possible, I was thinking of having one that basically wipes out crowdedness, which should make them like hanging out in groups a little more and a little more easy-going, I think that's probably the likeliest to get them happy in a group, but I'm not sure it would be that noticeable, certainly more boring to watch than the emotional reactions of the other ones.


"For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love."
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan

 
evolnemesis
Code Monkey

evolnemesis
United States  


  2/8/2015

Testing the 'happy drunks'... (disabled the other variants and made that one 0 for now so I can see the effects)... So far, nothing really remarkable, they get the drunk gait, but I can't see much other difference... these guys are almost always pretty happy anyway... One did say they were happy right after taking a swig though, but they don't seem to be acting much stupider than usual. They do enjoy the yule booze though, at least one was going back for more several times, at least until he passed out. One of them was stumbling after the pig-things in the norn-terrarium trying to play with them.

"For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love."
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan

 
Missmysterics

Missmysterics



  2/8/2015

I'd love to see those alterations, perhaps they could be implemented later as a sort of "advanced" version, or the like, but whatever you feel like doing and all. :)

Uh, I was thinking, will you be altering treehuggers to function a bit better?
Treehuggers are hard to keep and rather unrealistic because of their constant crowdedness, especially with the CFE genome because it makes them dislike everyone.

If I recall correctly hardmans have an analogous issue with their anger as well.

 
evolnemesis
Code Monkey

evolnemesis
United States  


  2/8/2015  1

Yeah, Treehuggers and Hardmen will be the first other Norn genomes I plan to convert to see if they have issues, probably before a full release of CFF... This set of fixes do already give them some alternative ways to deal with or avoid these things a little better than the normal ones, though. And worse comes to worse, their new hunger overwhelmsion organ should at least help stop them from getting so preoccupied with those drives that they starve (I will see about anger especially... it will probably be necessary to add anger suppression to this organ too).

I'm also not 100% sure about all the Evo nature instincts... I do like how they make these norns act, it adds quirks to their personalities and makes them happy, easygoing, a little more nature-oriented, and pretty independent, but it might change other breeds personalities a bit too much... That will have to be decided when we see what applying the changes to more distinctive breeds like the Hardman do to their personalities. I might leave the instincts there, but inactive, so that they allow a bunch of space for extra instincts slots open for use for new breeds but still let the genes all line up with a custom breed like the evos... plus the extra instincts can still mutate and turn on individuallhy for interesting quirky effects.

As for the advanced norns, I will put up a pack with a first gen male and female CFF 0.5 Chichi shortly, plus the latest genome files (I'm up to 874 genes!), so you can examine the genome or clone eggs from the genetics editor. Besides looks, these guys will be about the same as the Evo norns... at least until you get them drunk... ;)


"For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love."
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan

 
Malkin

Malkin
Australia  
Manager


 visit Malkin's website: Malkin's page at CWiki
  2/9/2015  1

Have you considered starting with the Improved CFE Treehuggers? They have edits to let them feel loneliness and have an idea of how to use lifts to get away from other creatures.

My TCR Norns
 
Nutter
Senior Wrangler

Nutter
United Kingdom  


  2/9/2015

Missmysterics wrote:
Treehuggers are hard to keep and rather unrealistic because of their constant crowdedness, especially with the CFE genome because it makes them dislike everyone.



That's not unrealistic - that's everyday life for some of us...

 
Missmysterics

Missmysterics



  2/9/2015

Perhaps unfitting was a better word, some people and even some whole species are completely asocial. Treehugger norns didn't strike me as if they should be that way, but more of a "freindly but shy" or "three is a crowd" temperament. The treehugger norn story has them being somewhat together; more than one seemed to be living in the same house.

On the issue of the added instincts, maybe they could be made more breed-appropriate. Like maybe hardmans have extra instincts to hit things, or have them hoard eggs (as protective measure towards offspring, or to be antagonistic towards grendels?) I don't see why bondis or treehuggers shouldn't have the normal CFF instincts, though CFF creatures do seem to take great interest in machinery, which I suppose should be lessened. That said, the current CFFs are chichi norns which do have an interest in machinery.

@Malkin as far as I know they still have the issue I described in the comments.


 
evolnemesis
Code Monkey

evolnemesis
United States  


  2/11/2015

Noticing a definite issue with them breeding with the newest libido lowerer tweaks... dialing it back down somewhat and doing some testing before I can get back to converting those hardman and treehugger genomes.

"For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love."
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan

 
Dark

Dark



  2/11/2015

Hm, I guess I should probably hold off breeding these guys in until they're completed. I did notice a lack of interest in breeding.
 
evolnemesis
Code Monkey

evolnemesis
United States  


  2/11/2015  1

Well, they CAN breed, but they have a hard time being interested.. they do seem to do some pushing on each other, I had several that loved each other, got some sex drive and stuff, had good hormone levels, and I've seen them make eggs, they just very rarely get aroused enough to successfully kisspop because of the libido lowerer being around in them and killing their arousal potential. Extra stimulation was able to get rid of the libido lowerer, like making them keep pushing each other made more arousal that eventually overcame it, and some shots of the aphrodisiacs from the hoverdoc should work just as well.

I have a fix for it already, it's just one halflife change. I wouldn't expect it to be too bad of a problem to put them in your population though, since that trait is unlikely to be passed on for very long as it is. I still have to test and tweak it a little, but I think I have a good value for it now in the ones I am working on. I'm already working on converting hardmans, those will be up in a day or two, with that halflife fixed as well.


"For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love."
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan

 
Dark

Dark



  2/12/2015

An update on my experience with Fred and Ethyl. I thought it was just Ethyl that is always frightened but, and I know this sounds weird because they're the exact same creature every time, but it seems to change every time I important Fred or Ethyl? Either they act totally fine or one or the other is terrified the entire time.

Can creatures die of fear? Because Fred just made it to adulthood (while constantly scared) and then died, and I can't find any other reasons for his death.

This one really has me stumped. Why would they behave so differently if they're the exact same creature?

Edit: I actually had Fred and a clone of him in the world and Fred 1 was totally happy and normal and Fred 2 just died after spending his entire life terrified of god knows what.

It wasn't bramboo, because Fred 1 was in the meso which has the bramboo and Fred 2 was in the norn terrarium which has no bramboo.

 
evolnemesis
Code Monkey

evolnemesis
United States  


  2/12/2015

I have not seen that happen with them ever... It sounds to me almost like there is no air in places in your world. They definitely can't die of fright, but they can die if they suffocate, and they will freak out from that.

Other than that, I have not observed them having problems with fear. If you know exactly where the other one died, you can try putting one there and see if it starts freaking out, put one in the same area and watch its fear level in the hoverdoc, if it starts shooting up high when they aren't getting attacked or next to a falling bramboo or something, then there is a problem in your world... Mine are just happy almost all the time.

Also, see what happens if you make a new empty world and just stick them in it.


"For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love."
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan

 
Dark

Dark



  2/12/2015

Is there a way to tell if there's low oxygen in my world? And what the heck would cause that? I'll try popping them in a new world and see what happens.
 
evolnemesis
Code Monkey

evolnemesis
United States  


  2/12/2015

not sure, some things can mess up room types I know that. New world should tell you if that's the problem.

"For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love."
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan

 
Dark

Dark



  2/12/2015

I put three Freds and 3 Ethyls between the meso and the norn terrarium in a new world. So far no one looks frightened.

It's strange though, because it wasn't like they were always frightened when in the same metaroom, it really didn't seem to matter what metaroom they were in.

I'm using the infirmary metaroom to see if anyone has low oxygen and I'll be peeking in that again when I return to the main world.

 
Dark

Dark



  2/12/2015

I've returned to the main world. A norn occasionally reads as low oxygen for a few moments on the infirmary but it's usually very brief.

I tried moving Fred 1 to the norn terrarium, where Fred 2 died and there was no change. He's still perfectly happy.

This is really strange.

 
evolnemesis
Code Monkey

evolnemesis
United States  


  2/12/2015

odd... look at the air, it's a little bit better indicator than oxygen (they regulate oxygen so it stays at a relatively stable level for a little while with no air... ) The air level shows how much air is in their lungs, and should go up quickly at each breath, then decay between breaths, you should see a regular sawtooth pattern... (the air level starts out a little low at birth, but goes up a little in a few minutes)... Oxygen normally stays very regulated in a very small range... it shouldn't go down in their bodies much at all, unless they are not breathing... it's very fine tuned in their metabolisms, I've found that when oxygen is decreasing, they've already not had air for a while and their energy level is also going to decrease very quickly afterwards.

If any norn can't breathe, you will see air just decrease for a while and the rhythm get messed up. Also these won't freak out right away in an area with no air, they have to not be able breathe for a while to feel like they are suffocating (low oxygen and buildup of enough lactate afterwards causes fear)... It is possible only small areas are missing air and they are just moving through them or avoiding them most of the time before it affects them enough to scare them... I'd watch their respiration with the x-ray or something... also graph lactate and see if you get a buildup of that...


"For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love."
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan

 
evolnemesis
Code Monkey

evolnemesis
United States  


  2/12/2015

There's an emitter in the norns that tells them if they are in breathable air, you can't really look at that though, except by watching their breaths and stuff like the air or oxygen... but the following command at the command line will reveal the room type underneath the pointer... (I think the room type determines if they can breathe in it)

outv rtyp grap mopx mopy

Not sure which type each number is, I think open air cabin is 0, but whatever it is, you should be able to see if some open air areas have a different type from each other (rooms are small little sections of each metaroom)... water for example has a different type, and platforms, and walls, doors, etc... you should see all the areas that are supposed to be air all having the same type, if any are different then I think that would be the issue.. probably some corruption in the world if that is the case.


"For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love."
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan

 

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