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Lurhstaap

Lurhstaap
United States  

 visit Lurhstaap's website: Addicted To CAOS
  3/20/2016

So the chemicals labeled preREM and REM do not trigger the dreaming then? I was thinking of trying to make them emit REM while awake to see what that did. That's too bad - I forgot about dreaming when I typed the last post, but if we could make them basically just dream while awake it'd be perfect.

Conclude with killer catchphrase.
(Lurhstaap)
"This is not knowledge -
this is information!"
New Model Army, "Courage"

 
evolnemesis
Code Monkey

evolnemesis
United States  


  3/21/2016

You can try injecting those chemicals, but I think the engine and their brains only do anything with them while they are asleep... I'm not sure though, it's worth at least trying.

"For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love."
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan

 
Lurhstaap

Lurhstaap
United States  

 visit Lurhstaap's website: Addicted To CAOS
  3/21/2016

In that case I guess I'll give it a shot - can't hurt! I'll let you know how it turns out if you're interested.

Conclude with killer catchphrase.
(Lurhstaap)
"This is not knowledge -
this is information!"
New Model Army, "Courage"

 
evolnemesis
Code Monkey

evolnemesis
United States  


  3/21/2016

Yeah, definitely let me know... they kind of have to be something the game engine deals with directly with something hardcoded, since I have seen no genes that do anything with those chemicals, not even SV rules in any brain genes that use them for anything... My best guess is the game does something with them to signal starting and stopping instinct processing as part of the dream cycle...

Since it seems to inject the chemicals itself, I fear it might only look at their levels while it is in the middle of running that process, but I could be wrong... it might actually react interestingly to seeing those chemicals in a creature at any time... Best case, you may be able to get them to dream while awake... The situations they would experience will be the ones in their instincts, and the experience will tend to reinforce any instincts they have I'd think. Not sure how it would make them act while that is happening, though my guess is they would seem mostly catatonic while they try to manipulate things that are not really there...


"For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love."
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan

 
Malkin

Malkin
Australia  
Manager


 visit Malkin's website: Malkin's page at CWiki
  12/9/2016

evolnemesis wrote:

Also, if you use any CFF or CFF-based genome other than one of the TWB genomes for your breed, I would recommend looking for the following 2 CFF chemical receptor genes and deleting or silencing either of them if they are there... (TWB are based on CFF, but have additional systems and changes that work to fix the issues associated with these two genes...):

- An alcohol receptor in the liver catabolic organ which attaches to the organ's rate (this is defective and slows the liver to a crawl unless they are drunk, no real bad effect other than it makes it very hard for them to store nutrition unless they drink alcohol constantly... they can live healthy lives, but they will not be able to build up glycogen stores, so some will get 'near death' music and groans when not hungry)...

- An adipose receptor in the mitochondrial organ, causing organ damage when adipose is extremely high... (this inevitably causes heart failure in any creature with a normal liver, because it turns out that C3 genomes normally don't actually ever burn fat and max out adipose levels pretty quickly... The defective gene in the liver existing at the same time covered this problem up in testing, because it stopped them from storing excess fat.)



Did you mean the liver anabolic for the alcohol receptor? Looking at the C12DS pack, they seem to have an alcohol receptor there.


My TCR Norns
 
evolnemesis
Code Monkey

evolnemesis
United States  


  1/10/2017

Yeah that would be it... I think it's the only alcohol receptor they have besides the ones near the end of the genome that determine their variant-based alcohol behaviors.

"For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love."
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan

 
Ashtore

Ashtore



  11/17/2017

I love these norns but I have found a couple of issues that I am having trouble explaining/working around.
Both happen when a norn gets pregnant or is related.
The first issue is that when some of the norns get pregnant they insist on heading to the norn meso to lay their egg, overriding ALL their needs. Normally this wouldn't be a problem but I am using Garden box to have things grow in certain areas seasonally so the norn meso doesn't have food all the time and the baby norns that hatch are in danger of starving if they are there in the wrong season. I am working around this by just being observant and removing the babies to a better location but this won't work during wolfling runs. Any suggestions would be nice.
The other issue is connected but focused on the mothers. Once they get to the norn meso sometimes, it's not consistent, they will be stuck there and starve. They will literally just sit there and starve.
The only way I have to solve this, found this out by accident, is that hitting the stuck norn causes them to get up and find food/toys. Its weird and I would love it if someone could tell me why this happens.

 
Dragoler
Wrong Banshee

Dragoler
United Kingdom  


  11/18/2017  2

When creatures become pregnant they produce a strong drive for comfort which encourages them to return to their "homes". Creature "homes" are invisible smell (CA) emitters with the strongest Norn Home emitter being in the norn meso, so pregnant females are always drawn there and the drive is quite powerful, as well as being un-suppressed by everything but starvation. When they get there, it sounds like they go into a trance, possibly because the emitter is invisible to them but they know it's there by the smell. To fix this, i'd recommend using an agent that produces home smell and moving it along with the seasons, though this also gives me an idea for a seasonal "home smell" patch plant. If I could only make agents...

Creator of the TWB genome base.

 
Ashtore

Ashtore



  11/18/2017

Thats what I was thinking as well, there are several smell emitters that I could use but that doesn't really help with the wolfling runs...and I am in the same boat with the making of agents, this would be a gret idea for one if anyone who has that ability has nothing to do ...lol!
 
CeruleanSilver

CeruleanSilver
United States  


  11/18/2017

It’s actially not too difficult to just turn the instinct off if you have a particular breed you’d like this issue modded in. It’s in their reproductive organ. I know that’s a cheap fix. I think the brainfarter or snap out of it agent might be useful too.
 
Arnout

Arnout
Netherlands  


  11/18/2017

CeruleanSilver wrote:
It’s actially not too difficult to just turn the instinct off if you have a particular breed you’d like this issue modded in. It’s in their reproductive organ. I know that’s a cheap fix. I think the brainfarter or snap out of it agent might be useful too.


The Norns getting stuck and starving does sound a lot like eat elevator syndrome. So I'd recommend either of these agents as well.

If you want to get rid of the strong comfort drive the classic way: Breed a lot of Bondi Norns in your worlds. :P

 
InsanityPrelude
For Science!

InsanityPrelude
United States  


  1/30/2018

I'm running a wolfling run in C12DS right now with all CFF 1.1 (and one 2017) Norns, and I've noticed several cases of apparent wallbonking-to-death: dead Norns found next to walls, with no toxins in their system and their only high drives being pain and fear according to the hoverdoc. Often these are away from crowded areas, so that seems to rule out them having been beaten to death by other Norns.

Is that a CFF problem or something weird about how C12DS handles rooms?

 
Zurinsel13

Zurinsel13
Austria  

 visit Zurinsel13's website: Random maybe
  2/25/2018

@InsanityPrelude did you mix the CFF and 2017 Norns? Usually their genomes are not good at mixing together because of the different number of genes, could it be that they are always dead next to a right wall? Then it is a brain issue that they are missing some parts and always walk into the right direction. They are naturally unable to walk left or any other direction, so maybe that could be it :) ?
Do you have the agent activated that they get pain by walkbonking? This of course kills them rapidly.


"Vision is the art of seeing what is invisible to others"
-Jonathan Swift

 
InsanityPrelude
For Science!

InsanityPrelude
United States  


  2/25/2018  1

This was happening to first-gen norns, and I don't think I have that agent.
 
Arnout

Arnout
Netherlands  


  2/26/2018  1

Wallbonking is actually not functional (and/or bugged) in C3DS and can be fixed with this file (if the stimulus was present in your former script anyway).

Walls and edges are not visible agents in C3DS, which makes Creatures unable to retreat from them. They'll retreat from a nearby agent instead, causing them to run towards the wall again repeatedly: The cycle goes on, and they'll die.

 
Malkin

Malkin
Australia  
Manager


 visit Malkin's website: Malkin's page at CWiki
  2/26/2018

I think I ended up removing the wallbonking stimulus from that file by popular demand...

My TCR Norns
 
Arnout

Arnout
Netherlands  


  2/26/2018

Malkin wrote:
I think I ended up removing the wallbonking stimulus from that file by popular demand...


Yes, that's right! I presumed @InsanityPrelude was using the older script.

 
Malkin

Malkin
Australia  
Manager


 visit Malkin's website: Malkin's page at CWiki
  2/26/2018  2

Could it also be Never Run Into A Wall? That comes with actual agents rather than just a cos file...

My TCR Norns
 
InsanityPrelude
For Science!

InsanityPrelude
United States  


  2/26/2018  2

I forgot I had that script update. Yeah, looks like I was using the older version.
 
Malkin

Malkin
Australia  
Manager


 visit Malkin's website: Malkin's page at CWiki
  2/27/2018  1

Thanks, Arnout!

My TCR Norns
 

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