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Creatures 3 Genome Project   1 | 2 | ... | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15
evolnemesis
Code Monkey

evolnemesis
United States  


  11/15/2015

Ah yeah, Arnout did those... I think it really should only be affected by whichever antigens affect their stomach organs normally... The same bug is probably in Grendels if that is the case, since I think they are affected differently by antigens from Norns as well. I'll be looking at those and if I get permission I'll release new versions of those along with the other new versions with this last round of fixes.

What I noticed most was the need to remove that boredom from their 'found home stimulus'... my Ettins were pacing around home a lot.


"For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love."
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan

 
Dragoler
Wrong Banshee

Dragoler
United Kingdom  


  11/15/2015

I set it to antigen 1, they only have 1 antigen sensitivity per overwhelm organ and that one is also used in their stomach.

I would agree about the home smell stimulus, my TWB version seem to be quite efficient clepto's.. they even inspired a random Grendel to copy them :P

Edit: Was there a reason why you made it so that male Ettins could not reproduce naturally? Some genes in the immune system also seem to be in the wrong order.


Just one more tweak before bed...
 
evolnemesis
Code Monkey

evolnemesis
United States  


  11/15/2015

I didn't have anything to do with the Ettins, they were adapted by Arnout from the base Ettins and the CFF 1.1 genome... They shouldn't have differences like that from the base genome unless there were mistakes. As for reproductive systems, I imagine it's possible that there are also some differences in them from Norns that Arnout didn't take into account when adding the CFF genes that affect the reproductive system.

It seems that the grendels and ettins bear some extra scrutiny... really the only thing I was concerned about was their reproductive system when I was thinking of converting them myself... though it's also possible that these new nutritional changes can also affect them differently than norns, and might have to be tuned differently.


"For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love."
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan

 
Dragoler
Wrong Banshee

Dragoler
United Kingdom  


  11/15/2015

I checked the CFF Ettin genome against the CFE version and there are some very odd changes to the reproductive system in the CFF not preset in the CFE.

I considered that they might reproduce differently, but that doesn't actually seem to be the case. I converted them back to the CFE gene setup and they can reproduce, but with libido lowerer set at 46 (my standard for TWBs) they still struggle somewhat.

Also I think you are right about different nutritional needs, my Ettins seem to be constantly hungry for carbs. I also noticed that they are converting 8 glucose to 1 glycogen but only retrieving 6 glucose back each time.


Just one more tweak before bed...
 
NimhsLab

NimhsLab
United States  


  11/15/2015

I'm not sure if anyone's suggested this yet, but wouldn't warmth being a by-product of digestion or such make creatures a bit more responsive to the environment's hotness? aside from the desert just not being hot enough.

[chirping and clicking] Clicks for a winter god! >
 
evolnemesis
Code Monkey

evolnemesis
United States  


  11/15/2015

Well, those have no changes to anything involving nutrition AFAIK, there's nothing like that in CFF 1.1... Any oddities should be the same as the base Ettins...

I was talking about having to pay special attention to them if I were to try to apply the new set of changes that include nutritional genes like the TWBs have, because Ettins and Grendels probably have key differences in their metabolisms from Norns, the same way that base Ettins and Grendels have some major differences in their reproductive systems from Norns...


"For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love."
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan

 
Dragoler
Wrong Banshee

Dragoler
United Kingdom  


  11/15/2015

Ah I understand, and you are right the warmblood system did need some additional tweaking for Ettins to work properly, even a small change seems to set them off kilter... water just keeps getting used up too quickly and they overheat (though that won't really be relevant to CFFs)... That said, the glucose to glycogen thing I mentioned is in the base (well CFE) genome, and I think it is probably a bug... unless they were meant to be horribly inefficient with food storage.

@NimhsLab, I don't really want to derail evol's CFF topic into a TWB discussion. I will happily talk with you about your suggestion on the TWB thread.


Just one more tweak before bed...
 
evolnemesis
Code Monkey

evolnemesis
United States  


  11/15/2015

quite possible, I'm sure the Ettin and Grendel genomes have their own issues... for CFF I myself have only really examined Norn genomes so far, it's definitely plausible, even probable, that there are other bugs in the Grendel and Ettin genomes.

"For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love."
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan

 
NimhsLab

NimhsLab
United States  


  11/15/2015

@dragoler I didn't realize that hot/cold recognition was twb specific at this point, i apologize. I'll be glad to look through the twb thread.

Edit: Although now that i look, this seems like it should have been obvious that this wasn't where that was happening... I looked at the twb thread a while ago and thought it was this one.


[chirping and clicking] Clicks for a winter god! >
 
Arnout

Arnout
Netherlands  


  11/16/2015  1

Ah, I knew I missed some things in the Ettin and Grendel genomes. :$

Speaking of the official genomes that I've converted to CFF: feel free to use them for your own projects. No need to credit me or that kind of silliness. x)

 
Dark

Dark



  11/17/2015

Have you considered moving their reproductive rate back towards where it was (not necessarily all the way)? I keep my pop control options so that the norns can only breed as adults.

They have to make it to adulthood and if they haven't bred by old age they're exported. This makes for a pretty small time frame for them to breed and it can be very tough to get the CFFs to breed in that time frame.

 
evolnemesis
Code Monkey

evolnemesis
United States  


  11/17/2015  1

Yeah, I think it's possible that the libido lowerer half-life could stand to be lowered back down a little...

"For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love."
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan

 
Dark

Dark



  11/18/2015

I'm so glad you're working on the 'boredom while at norn home' issue because I did a wolfling run and came back to the majority of them dead in the heat pan in the norn meso. They get so caught up pacing there, it's ridiculous.
 
Dark

Dark



  11/23/2015

Will you be releasing a test pair for the final make first or are you just going to test them yourself and released them officially when you're satisfied?

Edit: Interestingly, I've hit gen 30 with the CFFs I'm playing with and they seem to suddenly be breeding much faster.

 
evolnemesis
Code Monkey

evolnemesis
United States  


  11/24/2015  2

Will be releasing a test pair first, once I am reasonably satisfied. I want to make sure these are good for a final version.

"For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love."
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan

 
Dark

Dark



  11/24/2015

Cool, I'll be happy to test them when they're out. Thanks for all the work you've done fixing these guys up.
 
Dark

Dark



  11/25/2015

I thought of something else.

I've had many a norn die because they were hungry and became obsessed with trying to eat... an elevator. They just lie there next to it until they die.

Is there a way to switch off elevators as an option for consumption in their brains?

 
Dragoler
Wrong Banshee

Dragoler
United Kingdom  


  11/25/2015

That is EE (eat elevator) syndrome, it only happens in DS (but not C3 standalone) and is one of the things that is still being figured out how to fix.

Untill a script or brain fix can be found you could try useing Brainfarter


Just one more tweak before bed...
 
Dark

Dark



  11/25/2015

Awesome, I missed that when I went through the downloads, thank you.
 
Dark

Dark



  3/1/2016

@evolnemesis

How are things going? Is this project still active?

 
evolnemesis
Code Monkey

evolnemesis
United States  


  3/1/2016  3

Well, the 1.0 packs were technically supposed to be the end of the project... With them I felt I fixed all the things that were missing or incomplete from C3 that could easily be addressed as a kind of addon to the base genomes, without really making any changes that could lead to horrible genetic incompatibilities in crossings.

The 1.1s were kind of an on public demand thing since people really liked my Evo brain changes, but I do intend to getting around to at least fixing the liver and heart issues that were not noticed before then, and tweaking the libido up to more reasonable levels. So eventually there WILL be a FINAL final release (1.2) with all my CFF breeds.

I'm not sure I will get into the more complex stuff we noticed with their nutrition storage systems so they burn fat properly in their metabolism and with activity, or try to keep the capability for them to get heart failure... The TWB Norns have those features already worked out, and I feel like I'd kind of be re-inventing the wheel there... Also, as I mentioned earlier in the thread, I still feel those particular features have the potential to be just a little more genetically incompatible with other breeds and hard to gengineer around for people making breeds from them than I really like for base CFF, which I envisioned as kind of a general set of fixes that could apply to any breed, like the CFE changes. Still, in a lot of ways, the TWB project is the successor to this one.

I am very sorry for the inactivity and lack of updates though... I've been extremely busy with work... The app and amateur radio repeater directory I made has been having a lot of success, and besides a few side projects, I've been mainly working on improving either the app or the infrastructure on it recently. On that front, my repeater directory, RFinder, is now THE official amateur radio repeater directory for the national radio societies in Canada, Mexico, Spain, Italy, France, Germany, the U.K., and we JUST got the biggest one, that we thought we'd never get... The United States... ARRL, which is a HUGE society... We're talking to a couple more countries too... It's been kind of a frenzy for me... ARRL are even discontinuing their own app AND their repeater directory that's been around for over 20 years called TravelPlus, and making our directory their official online directory, they are going to be directly partnering with us and giving us all their users and promotion... It's all pretty exciting stuff.


"For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love."
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan

 
Dark

Dark



  3/2/2016

I think you were also going to look into the norn home = boredom thing? Or maybe that was dragoler.

At any rate, I'm glad things are going well for you! I was just checking in to see if this was still going, I don't think any of us mind waiting at all.

 
evolnemesis
Code Monkey

evolnemesis
United States  


  3/2/2016  1

I will address the home boredom thing too if it is still there in my genomes... That is a gene that I had originally put in from the Gizmo genome... As advertised, it is supposed to give them a push to leave home area and do something else after they give birth, or after they return something to the nest if they have hoarding behavior; but as seen it tends to have the opposite effect and just make the creature obsessed with the home.

I will try to also look at the other official converted genomes provided by Arnout, like the Ettins and Grendels, and see if I can include fixed versions of them in the 1.2 release as well, so that the final CFF release can just have ALL the converted official genomes.


"For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love."
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan

 
Missmysterics

Missmysterics



  3/18/2016

I'm kind of getting an issue when norns seem to be suffocating for no apparent reason, I think it's because they got hot at some point, but once they cool down they're still suffocating.

That said, as far as I know, heat doesn't actually make one suffocate, it causes dehydration and burning.

 
Dragoler
Wrong Banshee

Dragoler
United Kingdom  


  3/18/2016

Creatures need water to breath and they can't replenish it themselves (at least not at any reasonable rate) because it's generated as part of a closed system in their lungs. So indirectly, heat does cause suffocation.

It is unrealistic, that's why I added a slight bit of water gain for every time a creature eats in my own genomes. Perhaps that could be a suggested feature for CFFs too?


Just one more tweak before bed...
 
Lurhstaap

Lurhstaap
United States  

 visit Lurhstaap's website: Addicted To CAOS
  3/18/2016

I've been trying to make my Abyss Dragons a little tougher so they don't die so easily in their younger stages and it's not going very well. They keep just inexplicably keeling over. Even using the Infirmary metaroom hasn't helped much. There's not even a 'falter' stage - they suddenly just moan and fall over after being perfectly normal. I didn't remove the falter behavior, at least not on purpose, so I'm very puzzled by this. Plus, I'm pretty sure the original Amphidracos are not CFF, which means that my dragons are currently suffering from a lot of the problems listed on this thread's first page, and learning that explains a lot of why they're working so well in some ways and yet are so creaky in others.

So I'm thinking of just starting over with the whole thing and making the changes I want them to have based on a CFF basic breed genome. Or alternatively porting CFF changes to the existing genome but that seems like it would be more work. Is there anything I should know or keep in mind with such a project? Are there possible conflicts or used chemicals I should know about? I'm using 163 and 63 for stuff in them at the moment, 63 due to the pre-existing Swimmeragent stuff.


Conclude with killer catchphrase.
(Lurhstaap)
"This is not knowledge -
this is information!"
New Model Army, "Courage"

 
Missmysterics

Missmysterics



  3/19/2016

I see, I suppose it makes some sort of sense then, assuming that making creatures die from a realistic dehydration process might be a bit too involved.
That also explains why they seemed to die no matter what, I assumed the heat>suffocation link was direct, rather than that they needed water. :B

 
evolnemesis
Code Monkey

evolnemesis
United States  


  3/19/2016  1

Lurhstaap wrote:
... porting CFF changes to the existing genome but that seems like it would be more work. Is there anything I should know or keep in mind with such a project? Are there possible conflicts or used chemicals I should know about? I'm using 163 and 63 for stuff in them at the moment, 63 due to the pre-existing Swimmeragent stuff.



You'd probably have an easier time starting with one of the CFF base genomes and adding changes onto that. Porting the CFF changes to an existing breed is a fairly large and error-prone task. As for chemical conflicts, CFF use a few new chemicals, but not 63 or 163... You shouldn't really have to worry about conflicting with these chemicals or anything they are doing normally... The worst possible effect of any messing with the action of these chemicals that I can think of, is a creature who is either freaking out all the time or can't tell when it is drowning... The chemicals are:

37: Lactate Dehydrogenase(LDH)... regulates the Pyruvate-Lactate cycle, created when oxygen level is low. When this is present, excess pyruvate ferments into lactic acid... When not present, any lactic acid in the body will quickly oxidize back into pyruvate, the body's normal short-term energy store.

61: Lactic Acid... represents lactate buildup from lack of oxygen in blood, replaces Lactate (chemical #1) in CFF genetics. Causes muscle burn, triggers panic reaction in CFF, acts as a secondary low-oxygen short-term energy store, giving suffocating creatures some extra time before their bodies shut down.

130: Tryptamine... CFF 1.1+ (and anything based on them) and Evo 1.0 will have visual hallucinations when subjected to this chemical, strength and duration of effect depends on dose. Full dose wears off after a few minutes. Chemical 130 can be found in Amethyst Berries and possibly a few other agents.

Also, if you use any CFF or CFF-based genome other than one of the TWB genomes for your breed, I would recommend looking for the following 2 CFF chemical receptor genes and deleting or silencing either of them if they are there... (TWB are based on CFF, but have additional systems and changes that work to fix the issues associated with these two genes...):

- An alcohol receptor in the liver catabolic organ which attaches to the organ's rate (this is defective and slows the liver to a crawl unless they are drunk, no real bad effect other than it makes it very hard for them to store nutrition unless they drink alcohol constantly... they can live healthy lives, but they will not be able to build up glycogen stores, so some will get 'near death' music and groans when not hungry)...

- An adipose receptor in the mitochondrial organ, causing organ damage when adipose is extremely high... (this inevitably causes heart failure in any creature with a normal liver, because it turns out that C3 genomes normally don't actually ever burn fat and max out adipose levels pretty quickly... The defective gene in the liver existing at the same time covered this problem up in testing, because it stopped them from storing excess fat.)


"For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love."
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan

 
Dragoler
Wrong Banshee

Dragoler
United Kingdom  


  3/19/2016

Seeing as TWBs have been mentioned, I will add a link to the list of changes present in those genomes here. Hopefully it will help you in deciding what to do Lurhstaap.

Just one more tweak before bed...
 
Lurhstaap

Lurhstaap
United States  

 visit Lurhstaap's website: Addicted To CAOS
  3/19/2016

At this point, due to discovering several bugs (well not so much bugs as mis-set-up genes but you know what I mean) in the original genome I was using, and considering the effort of tracking down and fixing all of that (not to mention figuring out what the heck the original creator was doing with a bunch of instances of use of chemicals 110 and 111) I have decided to start over using a more 'modern' genome as the base. However, I am definitely torn between CFF and TWB as both have traits that strongly appeal to me. Is there anything in later CFF that the TWBs don't have?

Thank you so much for alerting me to those problems! I have repeatedly observed the "pointless death music" phenomenon in my Grendeltails and wondered what the heck was up with that. I thought they might just have some weird mutation, but that liver problem has to be what's going on. Should I actually delete said genes if present or just silence them?

And may I also add that I am EXTREMELY impressed by what you've done with chemical 130? I've put some thought into drugs for Creatures, and I've come up with ways to do some of the more basic ones (opioids - Reward raise, Tiredness raise, and Pain reduction, for example) but I can't for the life of me figure out how you made the hallucinations work. Very nice work! One of my future projects is going to be making a genome that's sensitive to a variety of drugs and I'd like to include 130 and perhaps some slight variations on it to reflect stuff like psilocybin (less visually hallucinogenic but still slightly so, more physically stimulating).


Conclude with killer catchphrase.
(Lurhstaap)
"This is not knowledge -
this is information!"
New Model Army, "Courage"

 
evolnemesis
Code Monkey

evolnemesis
United States  


  3/19/2016

TWBs have everything that the latest versions of CFF have afaik, they are basically an extension of CFF 1.1 I believe, with all their fixes, though Dragoler could correct me on this... The only thing I might think of as a downside of TWB vs CFF is that they are less genetically compatible to breed with other types, because to get their nutritional and body heat systems working, they have additional fairly extensive metabolic changes that are intertwined and dependent on other changes spread out around their genome.

If you do go with non-TWB CFFs, silencing those 2 genes will also work... in that case you might also want to set them to not mutate, so they can't switch back on. As for Chemical 130, it was an experiment based on some functionality I saw in the SV rules of normal brains, and decided to expand on... (long-windedness ahead, read only if really interested, lol...):

See, Creatures have a slight random factor in what they decide to look at and think about doing... Basically, each possible action and object have neurons in the noun and verb lobes that are stimulated based on the actions it wants to do and things it sees (based on instincts, learned associations, drives, words it hears, and how stimulating objects are), and then the decision and attention lobes pick the verb and noun neurons that are most stimulated to decide its action and what it pays attention to... BUT, if you look at the SV update rules for the verb and noun lobes, you will see that a random factor is added to each neuron first... This random factor won't override anything they REALLY want to do, like eating food if they are starving, see food nearby, and know it will help; it just kind of gives a nudge when they are not sure what to do, making them decide to try new things and pick between actions in a more 'lifelike' way.

CFF 1.1+ (and the 1.0 Evos, and I believe all the TWB breeds) have this random factor increased, so they act a little more randomly, try new things more, etc... C3 norns were still fairly robotic, the random factor is pretty tiny, it seems less than other games, or maybe the learning in C3 brains is just so much better that they really know what they want more of the time... With this change, they still learn quite well, but they do act a little more like Creatures from earlier games... You may have to watch them more around dangerous things like deadly weeds or beasts, detritus, things like that, at least until they learn better.

As an experiment, when I made those verb and noun changes, I copied the random factor rules the verb and noun lobes already had, and added them to the tracts coming from the vision lobes. I set the strength multiplier for this additional random factor to be the amount of chemical 130 in them instead of a constant... So, when no chemical is in them, this random additional factor to their vision is suppressed and the vision lobe acts normally... When the chemical is there, they still see what's around them, but they have additional randomized levels of stimulation to the neurons representing every kind of object that could be in their vision, so they're also seeing all kinds of objects moving around at random varying distances... The higher the dose, the more the effect, and the more the phantom objects will whizz around, and the closer and more visually stimulating they can seem, drawing their attention or even making them obsess over one of these objects.


"For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love."
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan

 
Lurhstaap

Lurhstaap
United States  

 visit Lurhstaap's website: Addicted To CAOS
  3/19/2016

Believe me, I am extremely interested! Whatever you care to tell me about gengineering, especially stuff about the brain and the more advanced aspects, I will gladly read. This is my favorite aspect of Creatures and the part I've always been most fascinated by and had the most fun tinkering with. I've got the basics and some moderate-difficulty abilities with gengineering at this point, but the brain and the more advanced stuff I still have only the most basic understanding and I'd love to be able to do more advanced work.

That is absolutely fascinating, and not all that different from how real hallucinogens work, which is especially cool. When you say 'objects', do you mean all possible "objects" in the world, like other Creatures, critters, and such, or do you mean specifically inanimate objects like toys and so on?

With regard to my current project, interbreedability is a very low priority for me anyway since they're getting a lot of other modifications genetically for their breed which, while not fatal for offspring inheriting only a partial set, will definitely produce weird and possibly very undesireable behavior. For example a baby that inherited the Abysses's hunting instincts but a normal Norn's stimuli would be very nonviable without a lot of help and training. I've done some beginning modifications to a CFF Chichi genome, but if TWB includes the CFF improvements, I may just go with TWB to get the benefit of both upgrades. Thanks so much for your advice and help! (And if you ever want to ramble on about Creatures genetics or CAOS or anything development-related, I'm happy to listen!)


Conclude with killer catchphrase.
(Lurhstaap)
"This is not knowledge -
this is information!"
New Model Army, "Courage"

 
evolnemesis
Code Monkey

evolnemesis
United States  


  3/20/2016

Yep, sounds like TWB probably would be good then...

Also, since you are interested in the brains... I found a good resource to find out the purpose and name of every lobe tissue and neuron...

In the 'catalogue' folder of your game... look at the file 'Brain.catalogue' in a text editor... There is some VERY interesting information in there... including reference to a lobe which seems to be unimplemented, called the 'proximity' lobe.

The first array lists brain lobe names, the second one names the array the list of neuron names for each lobe is in... For example, the "attention" and "noun" lobes both correspond to the array "Agent Categories", and the "decision" and "verb" lobes both correspond to the array "Creature Actions"... These arrays with the neuron names are further down in the file... Neuron numbers correspond to array positions, starting at 0.

To answer your other question, the neurons in the "vision" lobe, like the "noun" lobe, corresponds to "Agent Categories", so the objects they can see are any of the 40 possible things in the "Agent Categories" list... That is, anything they can think of, and that list includes 'norn', 'hand', 'grendel', etc... as well as 'toy' and so on.

Especially interesting are the arrays 'Situation Neurons' and 'Detail Neurons'... these correspond to the neurons in the situation and detail lobes, respectively, and you can get some really interesting effects by hooking genes to these neurons... Notably, CFF use the detail lobe neuron 5, 'it is my parent', in instincts to get them to associate parents with fear reduction when young to cling to parents, and with crowding increase when older to encourage them to spread out... C2 Norns had similar behaviors using pheromone chemicals set by the game engine instead of a neuron.

There also seem to be a few other interesting things in there too. The friend or foe lobe is not cataloged in there because its neurons do not have specific functions, they are all dynamic, each one representing someone the creature has met, and altered by the game engine when they interact based on the creature's mood. They will eventually forget about creatures they don't interact with much if that is necessary to form a relationship with someone new (they have a limit of, I think, 32 friends/enemies they can know about).


"For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love."
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan

 
Lurhstaap

Lurhstaap
United States  

 visit Lurhstaap's website: Addicted To CAOS
  3/20/2016

Now that tidbit about the limit on known friends/enemies is very interesting. Now, I can't allow too many more than about 40 creatures in my world at once without this somewhat obsolete computer beginning to lag - it's not bad, but it's more than I like to deal with. However, when my own, much more powerful machine is fixed, I'm looking forward to seeing if I can handle groups of 50-60 without serious lag. If so, it will be fascinating to see how they react to that limitation.

Perfect! So it's a full, realistic spectrum of possible visions then. I wonder if there's a way to somehow, like... cross-link or include the situations and/or details lobes, to cause them to experience hallucinatory situations and scenes as well as simply moving objects? That would be the most accurate possible simulation of a hallucinatory drug in the Creatures engine that I can imagine at the moment.

Thank you very much, too, for telling me about that file. I have always wanted to tinker more with the brain in my gengineering, and it sounds like a lot of the information I need is in that file.


Conclude with killer catchphrase.
(Lurhstaap)
"This is not knowledge -
this is information!"
New Model Army, "Courage"

 
evolnemesis
Code Monkey

evolnemesis
United States  


  3/20/2016

Well, except the lobe tissue numbers themselves, those are in the actual brain lobe genes... But at least as far as neuron numbers that should help a lot.

As for setting up phantom situations and making them experience them, this is exactly how instinct processing works. When they sleep, the engine makes them dream about situations specified in their instinct genes (specified by the set of up to 3 activated neurons you can set in the gene), makes them think they take some action while they are in that situation, and they feel the specified drive changes as a result. I haven't seen a way to get the engine to do anything like this while they are awake (putting them into a dream state using CAOS also automatically forces them to sleep, and it does seem like this functionality is all in the engine and not really reproducible using just genetics). C2 had this state triggered by a chemical instead (which is where I got the idea for chemical 130).

Dreams are the only place where they can really cross-link and experience coherent phantom situations that I know of. SV rules by themselves just affect one tract or lobe. Though they can look at things like chemical levels, etc... allowing a kind of communication that way... I suppose with tracts (these use connections called dendrites to link neurons in a source lobe with neurons in a destination lobe, and can pass information between the lobes using specified rules), new brain chemicals, and things like that, one could do almost anything. The C3 brains and the SV rules are actually quite remarkable in potential, though there is a pretty strict limit on how many instructions can be put onto any one lobe or tract.

That being said, one could probably at least add a similar random factor to the situation and detail lobes triggered by a chemical like the one in the CFF vision lobe... Be aware that these 2 lobes are generally not something the creature is aware of directly though, and some of these neurons actually seem to not even be implemented, but it still might do some odd things... These lobes are pretty much just directly manipulated by the engine and used to store information the engine uses... some of the neurons are used by the engine to, for example, set a chemical emitter locus that allows a gene to emit arousal when the creature is near a creature of opposite sex and same genus.

Still, I'd think it might be worth a try... they'd for sure be getting strange arousals from anything they look at, occasionally feeling like it's a suitable partner... a creature with genes involving family might think some random thing is its parent and react that way, feeling crowded, emitting libido lowerer, etc... It might even make the game itself act weird if it actually depends on the information in those neurons to do something in the game like keep a creature inside a vehicle that is carrying it. (some brain mutations in earlier games had the potential to corrupt worlds... So to be on the safe side, I would try any creatures with altered functioning of these lobes in a new world first)


"For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love."
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan

 

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