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 Jessica    |
As many may be aware, my main development project at the moment is a massive overhaul of the Creatures 1 Norn sprites and body data. I have my own ideas of what to fix, but I figured it would be a good idea to open up a discussion to see if there are fixes/updates that others would like! This main topic will be updated to reflect releases and keep track of changes that will be made. The following breeds are included with this update: - Banana/Brown Mouse Norn (Slot 0) - White Haired Pixie Norn (Slot 1) - Horse Norn (Slot 2) - Santa Norn (Slot 3) - Purple Mountain Norn (Slot 4) - Forest Norn (Slot 5) - Fox/Ron Norn (Slot 6) RELEASES - 05/18/13 - Version 1.0 of Baby Male Norns - 05/05/13 - Beta Release of Baby Male Banana Norns LIST OF FIXES/UPDATES - All: Resized, recolored, and/or reshaped sprites - All: Improved body data coordinates - All: Correctly colored hands in all poses - All: Improved elder head sprites - Banana Norn Males: Reordered sprites to fix positioning in all life stages - Purple Mountain Norn Females: Toned down lipstick and eyeshadow Please feel free to post any additional problems/issues you have experienced with C1 Norns! The goal here is to keep in line with the C1 artwork and slight imperfections while ensuring that the Norns move properly and look as cute as ever! |
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 Wee Scrivener Trell |
I'm curious to see the makeup changes on the PMNs. Trell "Holy crap in a casket!" |
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 Feddlefew |
Repost: -Fox norns heads are misaligned down and to the left when facing the player. Glad to know that the PMN makeup has been toned down. Now if only someone could do that for C3DS Fallow norns..... |
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Wee Scrivener Trell |
Feddlefew wrote: What's wrong with the Fallows? By the way, loving the Banana boys so far Jessica. Trell "Holy crap in a casket!" |
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Feddlefew |
Female fallow norns have nail polish and eyeliner in bright lilac. I don't think it really goes with the breed. |
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Jessica |
I might make two sets of PMN female heads, only because some might want to keep the crazy makeup... But the natural appearance set is going to be my main priority! Fox Norns should benefit from the update with the body data coordinates, but I will be sure to keep a close eye on them. Thanks, Lily! Good to know they seem to be working: I can only take my own word for it, which doesn't help me figure out if there are any issues. The beta release has already been changed a bit, mainly when facing the camera. Perhaps the rest of the baby male breeds will be ready a little sooner than anticipated! |
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Wee Scrivener Trell |
They're simply wonderful! And personally, I wouldn't have the Fallows any other way.  Trell "Holy crap in a casket!" |
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 Mioonktoo |
I remember there being a fix for the female fox norn heads, once upon a time. It was created by Lis Morris but I'll be darned if I can remember any more details about it besides her site (Palace of the Evil Shee) being mirrored somewhere and it was still functional the last time I looked at it. Not sure if it's for one age or for all of them though. I think its for all ages since I don't recall, in recent memory, my fluffy test subjects ever giving me that peculiar look when they face the audience no matter how old they are. On the PMN girls, I'd be more likely to mix and match them; beings how I've figured out how to do at least that. Like maybe leaving the garish coloring on the old timers and having the more natural look on the rest. But that's just me. ![[nlaugh]](/images/smilies/emot_laugh.gif "[nlaugh]") I never did notice that the Fallows of C3DS wore makeup, though. From the depths of Deep Lurkspace I emerge... And suddenly can't remember what it is I came up for. |
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 Patient Pirate ylukyun Manager |
It's hard to tell whether it's meant to be makeup or natural coloring. Especially considering breeds like Astro or Harlequin. I think it almost looks like a black eye... Having gone and looked at a picture, the toenails are really odd looking. |
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Jessica |
Lis Morris did create an .att fix for the White Haired Pixie Norn adult. I'm not 100% sure if this fixed the alignment issue, though, because I've seen the problem pop up again and again in mixed breeds. No matter: Alignment should not be an issue with these updates! If I create alternates for the PMN females, it will be possible to choose which to use in each life stage like you mentioned, Mioonktoo! I'll include instructions on how to do so when I get to that point. Might be nice for everyone to decide what to do with those outlandish makeup choices! Ha ha! The Fallow Norns look like they suffer from an issue with the C1 Horse Norns: Some edges are covered in bright purple/pink, presumably from incorrect cropping and copying. Might be a project for someone, especially since people could then decide whether or not they wanted a more natural look! I would volunteer, but I really want to make sure I'm focused on my C1 sprites! No rest until they're done! Not really... Then I might not be sleeping for months. Yikes! |
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 Draggy |
I don't usually play around with Fox Norns, but there seem to be alot of errors with their leg sprites as babies..or maybe it is just me...? |
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Jessica |
I'm pretty sure you're right, Draggy! When I was working on all of the sprites, the Ron Norns had the most hideous shapes for their legs (and arms, too). You probably noticed large dark areas, along with incorrect shapes... There were a lot of mixed up sprites, so that the image for moving the leg forward was shown for moving in another direction. It might not have been too obvious, but I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed! This issue will be fixed: I basically had to rework the shape of every individual bitmap for them, as they seemed to have the worst case. I'm going through some more testing, and hopefully all of the baby male sprites and body data files will be available for download tomorrow or the day after! |
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Draggy |
Alright, so it wasn't just me! I think out of all the Norns you shall be working on..the Fox Norns might prove to be buggest! I haven't really even been looking for them honestly..It seems Female Child Fox Norns have a tendency to..not have their arms when laying down..or it might be my computer!  |
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Jessica |
Yeah, that looks like a case of body data files gone bad! Pictures like these really help me out, though. The males are up first, but my next phase will be fixing up the little girls. There is also the possibility that one of the poses (defined via genes) somehow has a mixup. However, judging by the issues I've seen so far, it's far more likely that there's something going on with the sprites and/or body data! |
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Draggy |
It might be the genes considering I recently downloaded Kezune's Updated Genetics. Either way, thank you for working so hard! When you get all the baby male sprites I can do some testing if you want, though I don't know how much I could help! |
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Jessica |
I know of one pose that has a mixed up foot sprite, but it's been present from the get go. It's pretty minor! However, with the feet correctly aligned with the floor, it's much more prominent. Any and all testing would be wonderful! I've reworked a lot, so it's always good to have a few more sets of eyes out there. I've found a couple of issues while doing my own testing, but I would love other feedback! |
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Jessica |
The first main release of the baby male Norns has been out for a couple of weeks. Any feedback? I would be very interested to know if these are working properly, as I would like to get started on the females. They'll be using the same general template as the males, so getting it right the first time will save me lots of time. Thanks! |
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Jessica |
Sorry for another post, but I still have yet to receive one piece of feedback. I don't know if this is because there aren't many people playing Creatures 1, if the updates are so bad that no one wants to comment, or if they're working well. I'm past the point of getting offended if the originals are preferred, so please feel free to be honest! I would love to keep moving with this project, but I keep stalling because I'm not sure if the base I've used for the males will work out. Thanks! |
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 Bifrost |
I would say something, but my C1 CD has been lost for years now, and my only way of playing it now is via C12DS. I did, however, already back then notice the poor spriting done by Cyberlife, especially in the banana norns legs, and I think you updating these errors now is superb. Wish I could play it and see them. |
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 Air Guitarist kezune |
I feel awful about not trying this before but, honestly, I just keep forgetting. :C Honestly, though, I don't think your fixes could make me like the Ron Norns. I never really liked the way they looked. :x They also don't seem to move as naturally as the other babies, despite the updated files. As for all of the other breeds, and a few mixes that I hatched, they all look and move fantastically! It's nice that there isn't a mysterious green shade on them anymore. Updated Rehosting Policy[/title] |
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Jessica |
All good news! I know that there aren't that many active C1 players, so I was only expecting a couple of responses. Good to know that it's not because these updates are awful or anything! I have plans to port these updates to C2 and C3/DS, too, which is why I'm a little annoying about getting feedback. I would rather have things correct the first time around, than have to worry about making tweaks as I go along. I know what you mean about the Ron Norns, Kezune! They're just so different, and not in an extremely endearing way. I feel like they're tolerable in my mind now that I've seen them go from lumbering around to moving about slightly better. I'll likely move onto the females next month, barring any negative feedback. I did find a minor issue with a transparent pixel on the male Forest Norn heads in a few positions, but I believe I updated the download file. I'll confirm this, though! It's actually not too obvious, since it looks like another freckle. I had those images burned into my mind, though, so I'm fairly certain that's why I spotted it! It will be nice to get the baby females fixed up: They're arguably in worse shape than the males with mixed up sprites and lots of hot pink outlining. It shall be gone for good soon enough! |
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 Tarlia |
Here's my two cents.  I really liked that you cleaned up all the little graphical glitches and the pose glitches, as well as the "norn pants" problem! They do look much better that way. However, I'm not as much a fan of the little appearance changes you made. It's not that they're bad, it's just that I'm so used to their original looks that it feels a little weird to me. Especially the differences made to the hair kind of bothered me, several of them seem to have less "fluffy" bangs/fringes now. The pixies and mountain norns in particular. (The Rons too, but I don't care as much about them.  )I'm also a bit unsure about whether straightening up the baby poses will make it look less like they're crawling, since their hands probably won't reach the ground so well, but I'd have to see them in action to be sure of that. I didn't really want to say this, though, since it seemed ungrateful to all the good work you've put in. Overall I really do like them, but the tiny changes would make them too unfamiliar to me... Edit: I feel like a jerk now so I just wanted to throw in some more positive stuff. The Horse, Banana and Forest norns (and Santa norns) all look good to me. I actually like the modifications you made to the Forest norns, and that their height matches better with the others now. It's the nitpicky hair issue with the breeds I mentioned above that really get to me. (But I have played this game on and off since 1997, so I have a bit of an... attachment.) |
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Draggy |
Oh, I'm sorry darling! I had assumed you already had your feedback and such. The only reason I'm a bit scared to do it is a lot like Tarlia's reasoning. Nostalgia and all. But lately, the weird outlines on some of the norns HAVE been getting to me... If you want, I'll try it and see how I feel about it...though I don't know how much I could give ^^; |
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Jessica |
I probably should have gotten some feedback before going ahead with the hair changes. I did this because it always bothered me that it never seemed like the Norns grew their hair: They were born with hair that remained the same length throughout life. I promise you that I only ever planned the hair changes for the baby life stage, so any changes made in childhood and beyond will just be to clean up the stray pixels on the hair, rather than giving them a haircut. Your feedback is most appreciate, Tarlia! The only feedback I don't appreciate is something along the lines of, "Eww! This is terrible. Really, why did you even bother? I hate this." You're completely justified, and I do appreciate you explaining your point of view! I haven't noticed the babies looking too odd with their poses changed, but again, I'm likely not the most objective person to be saying this. Ha ha! It might be more of an optional add-on later on, but I can definitely consider creating an alternative set of head sprites that are more true to the originals with long hair/fringes! |
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Tarlia |
I'm glad I didn't offend! That does make sense, and I'm relieved you weren't going to change the hair for all the life stages. The crawling pose thing isn't as big a deal for me, I'd have to give them a try ingame to make a better judgement on that too.I'd definitely be interested in an alternative set of head sprites, though. I dunno, I've been staring at these little guys for such a long time that even tiny changes like that are jarring to me, but I think that says more about me than anything. |
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Wee Scrivener Trell |
I thought the hair changes were for all life stages! Ohh, that's a great relief! Personally, I've never had a beef with the original sprites save for a few things (The male PMN head issue, the female Pixie heads, and an odd leg issue for female Mouse Norns), but I can see why some people might like an update.I haven't added the update to my own game yet, mainly because I'm an absolute sucker for nostalgia and I have a weird preference for leaving things as they are (same reason I'm only just using third party agents), but they look really good. From what I can see without actually adding it to my game, it looks fantastic. Wonderful work, great job on the colour correction. I'll probably add them to my sister's game first to see for myself. Trell "Holy crap in a casket!" |
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Bifrost |
Do you have any screen shots of fixed norns? |
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Jessica |
Any newly hatched baby males documented on my blog are sporting the new fixes. You can also see a comparison of each breed (before and after) in the following posts. Note that I did make a few minor changes after these screenshots were posted, so there could be a few small differences in the release. All for the better, though! Banana and White Haired Pixie Males Horse and Santa Males Purple Mountain, Forest, and Ron Males |
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 Spykkie |
did you change the color of the pixie/fox norn boots? It seem different... Also, great work!  those facing poses did look really weird... kind of painful to look at :/Twitt Stuff Insta Arts |
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Jessica |
It was actually unintentional... Their boots are now more on the brown side than the black side. The legs and feet were terrible discolored, with a lot of green. I carried down a similar color from the body. It does look rather different, though. Might be another case of something I can tweak, since I know those black boots were so adored! And thank you! |
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Bifrost |
You've done a super job on these. If you want feedback on one tiny detail, I think that the shoulders on the Horse and Santa norns now look just slightly haunchy when they face forward, and the horse norns have sort of lost some shoulder definition, while their elbows seem slightly (about one pixel on each side) too wide; if you look at the shape of the banana norns, you might see that it has a more dynamic shape to it, that the horse norns might benefit from copying. Also, the shading underneath the pixie norn's head has turned brown, which makes it look a bit like uneven fur patterns, rather than a shade (and yes, I did love the black boots). And some of the lower arms seem unproportionally long now, compared to the upper arms. Minor details, though, and everything is still a great improvement. The ron and forest norns are a 100% improved, and I don't see anything I don't like with them. The Pmn just seems sliiiiightly haunched in the shoulders, but other than that, he's reall, really nice. I think it's so great that you're doing this, and if you think my comments aren't just, or would mean more work than it's worth, I don't have a problem with that at all. As I've said, you've already done a great job, and everything is an improvement. |
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Jessica |
Every bit of feedback helps! The babies are extremely difficult to pose... I can't tell you how many times I changed the .att files around trying to find the perfect balance! The shapes of each breed are a bit different, mostly due to the body parts: They're all slightly different in size and shape, which meant that I couldn't copy over one set of coordinates. (How I wish I could, though!) I have a feeling I'll figure out more when I work on the children/adult phases. With more space to work with, it's much easier to get things in the exact right place! With the babies, moving one pixel in one direction can drastically change the appearance. Believe me... I had some ugly, bow-legged and long armed disasters during development! Thinking I might take some screenshots of said disasters in the further development... I was mostly annoyed when it happened, but I think it might make some people laugh at what Norns could look like. Ha ha! Thank you for commenting! I appreciate you pointing out everything: I might need a few revisions with the males, but I'm pretty confident that the females will come out OK with similar edits. As I mentioned above, the only feedback I don't appreciate are comments like "I hate this!" or "This is terrible. You should never make anything ever again." The things you mentioned are pretty easy... Once I want to get back into this project this month! Not like I need to rebuild all the Norns, which would likely make me cry. Ha! |
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Bifrost |
I'm glad you appreciate the feedback. And yes, I can imagine the frustration in making these guys look their best. Especially since one pixel can make such a great difference when working on such small images. I could, however, imagine the shoulder parts being moved outwards one pixel each way on the horses, pmns and santas, and the underarms being moved up one pixel on the pixies. Seeing messed attempts could be really funny, yes. And it might also help people appreciate the effort that comes with this all. Anyway, keep up the good work. ^^ |
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Tarlia |
I'm excited to see the female norns, when you finish them. I imagine it must be hard to work with such tiny sprites! It probably would have been easier to start with the adults, heheh. Oooh, speaking of which... The elder sprites I think are the most messy of all, as I rediscovered when playing C1 recently. I can't wait to see what you do with them, when you get there. |
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Jessica |
Thanks, Tarlia! In hindsight, I should have started with the adults. There's even a chance I could have resized them to get all of the life stages. Oh well! After the female babies are done, I'm debating whether I'm going onto the child or adult life stage... If I go with child, then they'll be "fixed" in order. But if I start with the adults, I could use that base to redo the elders, thus knocking out two life stages in one and saving childhood until later. I'll likely ask this before I get to the elders, but what if I did an overhaul? Rather than just having a different face, elders would have more faded colors and be approaching more of a grayed out look. I'm really not fond of the faces, either: To me, they look so tired and unhappy, rather than just old. I'm thinking of lifting the sagging eyelids a bit and going more for a wrinkled, happy appearance. Or maybe that's changing things a little too much... Would anyone object if I ended up making the "shrinking" breeds (those who get smaller in old age) standard size again? Still undecided about this, since mixed breeds still give me a laugh when only parts of them shrink! |
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Air Guitarist kezune |
Oh, I actually like that they shrink when they get old. I think it adds a little goofiness and charm. :3 As for the 'overhaul' I think that would be a lovely idea. The elders always looked miserable to me, especially since I'm always viewing them from the side. Greying them out sounds like it would also be a nice touch. It wasn't something I'd ever thought of before but it sounds very nice, all the same. Updated Rehosting Policy[/title] |
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