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 Tea Queen Laura   Administrator  |
Hello, I have a (fun  ) community activity for you: I wonder if anyone could help me solve the mystery that is my Norn, Bellona?As I mentioned in her description, I have reason to believe she has some sort of mutation which doesn't allow her to wake up un-assisted whenever she falls asleep. I always have to rouse her with several shots of Wake-Up Pill and Energy, before her Life Force depletes too much. Once, during one of these 'episodes', it dropped to under 30%; that well and truly put the frighteners on me I can tell you! I've also discovered that this causes a stuck pregnancy if she falls asleep pregnant, and have now had to use Freya's Anti-Smooch COB to stop her being fertile. So I'm wondering please, would anybody with C1 mind downloading her and sussing out what's wrong? I have no experience in interpreting the Science and Genetics Kits, and I know there's many intelligent breeders on this site that are more expert than I! Thank you in advance, and I look forward to reading any findings.  I'd love to get to the bottom of this conundrum because she's such a character and I have lots of fun with her... when she's not sleeping! ![:\](/images/smilies/confused.gif ":\") |
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 Deskman |
I have downloaded Bellona, and found that she had trouble sleeping, even though she was tired, so with the help of a few sleeping pills, she fell asleep with a lifeforce of 78%, and at the point of typing this has been asleep for about 19 minutes with her lifeforce at 68%, but her lifefore seems to now drop at a faster pace, and no sign of waking up  .Edit: i slapped her, and that woke her up somehow  |
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 Jessica |
Laura, do you have her .gen file? I would be happy to take a quick look at it: I love unraveling these genetic mysteries! I'm a little strapped for time, but if you don't have her .gen file, I'll be glad to import her and examine her genetics. I'm still not exactly an expert, yet I certainly love taking a look at them! Have you used the D-DNA Analyzer by chance? It allows you to compare one genome to any other, which makes finding genetic mutations pretty easy. It doesn't always explain them very well, but sometimes you can get an idea of what's going on! |
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Tea Queen Laura Administrator |
Deskman: Thanks for your investigation so far. I never let her sleep for 19 minutes myself, only because I was too scared of her sleeping herself to death. Funny, slapping her awake didn't work for me! Something's definitely amiss isn't it?Jessica: I have no idea how to locate her .gen file, or how to use the D-DNA Analyzer; sorry for being so inept, I guess that's why I'm lucky to have this forum at my disposal! If you could import her and have a looksie when you have the time I'd be really grateful, thanks. You certainly know more about genetics than I do. I did try and have a go at looking at her Biochemistry and saw this unfold:  I don't know much, nor know how to read it properly, but she appears to exhibit no sign of 'Tiredness Decrease' in her system? |
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Deskman |
After i slapped her, she was awake for a few minutes only to fall asleep again, and after 2 more times, she has been awake for a while so far. |
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Jessica |
She definitely is a mystery! There are no mutations that immediately impact her sleep patterns: Nothing that would explain why she wouldn't wake up. I was expecting to find something that kept her from reducing her sleep. What I did find were a couple of mutations, and one which I think affects her in general. This major mutation is in gene 129, which controls reinforcement in the brain. This is the chemical that reinforces both reward and punishment: It is very important in the learning process, since reward and punishment leave the system almost immediately. I noticed that she had some trouble learning concepts, like eating or sleeping. There is one mutation that involves sleepiness, but this has to do with sleepiness increase. It basically produces sleepiness and reinforcement, rather than sleepiness and punishment. I'll definitely take a closer look at her later on today! I'm certainly baffled by the lack of any obvious mutations, although the reinforcement issue could be part of it. Still, there might be something else... Just need to dig a little deeper and piece together a little more! |
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Tea Queen Laura Administrator |
Now that you mention it, I have noticed that Bellona doesn't always follow basic commands like "Bellona push food" or "Bellona come laura" straightaway; often it takes a swift spank to get her to do as she's told. The major mutation in gene 129 definitely explains that for me. I too am surprised that there's no mutations that immediately impact on her sleep patterns, although that sleepiness increase one does make some sense... Do you mean that it suggests Bellona sleeps so much because of the association with reinforcement, instead of punishment? It doesn't bother me that she has a major mutation, to me that just makes her all the more unique. I'm just glad we're a bit closer to having an idea of what's happening, because at least I can try and make her life a bit more comfortable if I know. Thank you, Jessica, this has been a real eye opener so far. I can't wait to see what else you find! |
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 Tarlia |
When she falls asleep... does she sleep restlessly, as in, keeps standing up and turning around while she's sleeping? That happens to C1 norns sometimes, some more than others, and I've never been able to figure out why. When they sleep like this, sleepiniess doesn't decrease, which is why they won't wake up. |
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Tea Queen Laura Administrator |
Thanks for the info, Tarlia; I'd say she tends to sleep without moving, though it's something I'll definitely watch out for. And it's true I have noticed, via the Health Kit, that her Exhaustion and Sleepiness levels do remain really high while she's asleep. |
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 Horstj |
I remember one C3-Grendel with a similar "problem", I looked at his genes but couldn't find anything there. But in the moment he fell asleep, he allways got lots of tiredness and sleepyness, while one of them (sorry I don't remember wich) was decreesed at a normal seeming speed, the other stayed at high levels. I think the high levels of the two sleep-chemicals somehow prevented one of them from being removed corectly, causing the creature to sleep ethernal (or rather untill starvation). I really don't know if this helps ('cause my experiances are from C3), but I hope so. |
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Tea Queen Laura Administrator |
Horstj wrote: Thanks Horstj, that's really interesting because if you look at Bellona's Biochemistry graph above, wouldn't you say a similar thing is occuring in her? Look at how low her Sleepiness Decrease is, in comparison to her Sleepiness and Tiredness. |
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Horstj |
I just gon an idea! I'm not sure if C1-CAOS can do it, but here's what I thought of: -When the physical agent (aka the seeable object) is activated in front of a creature a value is stored in one of that creatures permanent variables. - every few ticks the agent checks all creatures but the script is only executed on those who have that value. - The script checks wether the creature sleeps or not: if not nothing happens, if he/she sleeps some sleepiness/tiredness decrese is injected. This should make the creature wake up after some injections, so that they still can sleep but do not sleep eternal. Based on this idea it should be possible to create replacment organs* for all kinds of creatures. *I'm not sure if an agent/cob can replace the brain because it is very complex. But liver, imune system, time line, lung etc should be no problem. |
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 Gumbo |
That is too adorable. in the spring you gotta let the flowers fully blossom |
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 Vatrena |
I am gonna download her and see what's with her. I am not an expert for C1 but I definetly have experience with genetics in C2 so I think I might find out something. I'm a hardcore christian first, and a creature breeder second. |
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Jessica |
Ah-ha! I found an interesting event that happens to Bellona after she wakes up. I waited a long time until she finally fell asleep, and noticed that there was nothing odd about the decrease in her tiredness and sleepiness. In fact, she woke up fully rested in a minute or two. Once she woke up, though, she focused on herself and her sleepiness began to rapidly rise in steps. Within another minute or so, she was fast asleep again! The cycle continues unless she is distracted by something else: Just waving the hand around her face seemed to snap her out of it. I have screenshots and a better explanation, which I hope to post on Discover Albia in the next couple of days. Hopefully it will make more sense! I'm almost positive that this is a combination of her sleepiness increase mutation and the mutation in her concept lobe. Very interesting! |
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Tea Queen Laura Administrator |
Thanks for the continued interest, all. Jessica: So you've found that distraction helps keep her awake? That is interesting! Just like me on a boring, rainy day really... I've never known it in one of my Norns before.Thanks again, and also for deciding to post about this on Discover Albia! I'm excited that Bellona will be featured, and it'll make for an insightful read! |
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