creatures caves
welcome, guest 

downloads   gallery   dev   community   creatchi   forum   mycaves
bookmarks | search | post new topic
 
Development Forum
old
C2 - Wraparound fix attempt.   
Elegnaim

Elegnaim



  5/15/2017

Since the old cob for addressing the wraparound point weirdness seems to be gone forever, or I'm just REALLY bad at googling for things...

Download Link

(Credits: The modified 4 0 0 28 script in this is based on the one from Albian Updates).

The basic idea behind this is that for all of the scripts in the 4 0 0 range that used appr, appr was replaced with something like this:

setv va20 posx
setv va23 targ
targ _it_
setv va21 posx
targ va23

doif va21 lt 4176
doif va20 gt 4176
doif va20 lt 7000
pose 60
trig 6 10 255
else
appr
touc
endi
else
appr
touc
endi
else
doif va20 lt 4176
doif va20 gt 1500
pose 59
trig 6 11 255
else
appr
touc
endi
else
appr
touc
endi
endi


The intent here is that if a norn is to the right of the world seam at 4176 and their _it_ object is to the left, they receive a "Hand Pushed Me Left" trigger instead of appr (and vice versa).

This seems to work (although I couldn't test it extensively, norn attention spans being what they are) insofar as norns can track moving objects past the world seam without getting lost/find the science kit and incubator area cheese, but I have a few questions.

1. Is there a better way to force a norn to walk in a given direction? The push trigger doesn't seem to be totally consistent/seems to get interrupted more readily than appr does.

2. I tried to compensate for the 0/8352 wraparound point by suppressing the updates if the norn is between 7000x and 1500x. I think the 0/8352 wraparound works normally, and if the creature's at 7000x or 1500x they shouldn't be targeting something past the 4176 wraparound. Not entirely sure if this is working correctly yet.

3. I'm not well versed in CAOS and all the nested doifs look messy to me. Not sure if there's a better way I should be checking multiple conditions.

 
GimmeCat

GimmeCat
United Kingdom  


  5/15/2017

THANK YOU for doing this! The loss of that bugfix has been a gaping hole in the completeness of C2's patchscape for ages.

As for the walk issue, you could try sending a stim writ 26/27 (extra left/extra right) instead of a hand push?

 
Elegnaim

Elegnaim



  5/15/2017  1

Played around with this some more and put up an updated version (should be the same link). A few interesting bugs:

1. The updated scripts made creatures a bit... telepathic. I think I needed a touc command after triggering movement in the decision lobes to stop them from interacting with objects they weren't actually near.

This issue's my biggest concern right now.

2. Creatures mostly seem to handle objects lying around in the world well enough with this. They're prone to shuffling around about near the wraparound, but they get past it eventually.

Trying to get them to follow the hand past the wraparound point is NOT working though. I feel like there's a script governing creature and hand interactions that I'm not finding. It's possible one of the official patches/life kits/Albian Updates dropped some more appr's in somewhere.

This isn't really a major concern though -- the wraparound glitch was more problematic in terms of creatures finding things on their own.

3. Not sure if this is my fault, but I've noticed norns walking away from stuff they're looking at in places besides the wraparound point. I thiiink this is maybe just a thing they do sometimes though, but it's possible the bit in the updated script that forces them left is also causing them to not stop.

 
Elegnaim

Elegnaim



  5/16/2017

Okay, I think I have this working now. Updated download link in the first post.

From what I gather, touc causes the previous movement macro to just keep firing until the creature touches their target or goes completely out of range of it. As such, trig 6 10 255'ing them was making them overshoot their goal and rendering it impossible for them to get back to it, and appr'ing them meant they couldn't retarget properly if their target crossed the wrap point.

Updated solution to this is below:

1. Check to see if ownr and _it_ are touching. If they are, do the rest of the script.
2. Do the same basic wraparound checking I described above.
3. Finally, don't try to actually touc anything unless ownr and _it_ are within 200 distance units of eachother.

Potentially you could still break this by grabbing something really close to a norn that was being targeted and moving it past the wrap point, but that's... a very specific edge case.

Only issue I'm noticing now is that sometimes norns shuffle in place a bit before getting over the wraparound point, but they're getting past it now, at least.

I haven't been able to test the creature-on-creature interaction scripts very much, unfortunately, and those ones are a bit weird.

I decided to stick to trig instead of stim. My understanding is that trig bypasses learning and I'm assuming appr does too, so I wanted parity there.

Also I do have some concerns re performance since a lot of conditionals were added.

Anyway, if this looks like it's working for other people I'll try to get it submitted to the proper download archive.

Possible Issues:

1. As noted above, if a creature walks past its target and ends up outside the range of being able to touch their target, they can get stuck in a perpetual left/right walk loop. Since I originally posted this, I bumped the touch distance up from 75 to 200.

This is actually still happening after I removed my scripts though so uh... Hm.

2. I still notice some cases where norns walk past what they're looking at, although I think this is just something that they do anyway?


scrp 4 0 0 17
impt 4
aim: 0

doif touc targ _it_ gt 1
gsub oscr
else
setv va20 posx
targ _it_
setv va21 posx
targ ownr

doif va21 lt 4176
doif va20 gt 4176
doif va20 lt 7352
pose 60
trig 6 10 255
else
gsub oscr
endi
else
gsub oscr
endi
else
doif va20 lt 4176
doif va20 gt 1000
pose 59
trig 6 11 255
else
gsub oscr
endi
else
gsub oscr
endi
endi
endi

subr oscr
setv va22 relx
doif va22 lt 0
negv va22
endi
doif va22 lt 200
appr
touc
wait 4
mesg writ _it_ 0
stm# writ targ 13
wait 4
pose 12
wait 20
done
else
appr
endi
retn
endm

 
GimmeCat

GimmeCat
United Kingdom  


  5/16/2017

I'll try and test it out in my game tomorrow. Good work!
 
Malkin

Malkin
Australia  
Manager


 visit Malkin's website: Malkin's page at CWiki
  5/16/2017

This looks very promising, thank you for trying to fix this problem!

My TCR Norns
 
Elegnaim

Elegnaim



  5/18/2017

Updated a few things. Same download link in the first post.

1. The Seek script had the following lines added after the bits that cause the norn to walk left or right. These were originally after the appr command, so hopefully they'll stim the norn into thinking they're approaching their target.


impt 1
pose 12
wait 30
stm# writ targ 16


2. Dropped the distance before a norn starts appr'ing their target from 200 to 100, since the thing with norns walking past the object their looking at doesn't seem to come from my changes.

3. Added a modified version of MrNstuff's drop script. At that, is there any way I could dig up these old modders to see if they're okay with me incorporating their scripts? I'm only doing this for compatibility reasons but still :T

 
Malkin

Malkin
Australia  
Manager


 visit Malkin's website: Malkin's page at CWiki
  5/18/2017

It's commendable that you want to see if the old guard is okay with you incorporating their scripts, but it has literally been 18 years since C2 was released. It seems to me, through a trawl of alt.games.creatures that it has long been 'a truth, universally acknowledged' that C2 is buggy as all get out.

My TCR Norns
 
Norngirl

Norngirl
Sweden  

 visit Norngirl's website: Norngirl's Temporary Storage
  5/18/2017

Sorry if this maybe is off topic or not related at least to the fix you make for C2,but is there any way there could be fix for the Vibraphone?
I noticed Norns aren't able to interact with it...
I also wonder if the Guitar toy is broken as well.

I know C2 have a lot of bugs and Im not sure if most are fixable,such as the game crash on third or more years passing ingame - but if able that would be a dream come true to make it fully playable!

It's nice to see you try hard on some of the bugs thought!
Yes I notice Norns seem to have a bad habit to walk away from objects they look at,some more than others and do not know if that can be fixed?

I also noticed this area where they refuse to walk to the left when they are close to the second springtoy you find near the lift going up to the science kit -perhaps a image shows better of what Area Im talking about Seen on this screenshot I found
-Yay finaly got the image link code to work-

Not even with Freyas bridge cob installed did they want to be encouraged to walk towards it.
Perhaps thats what you fixed?

If I ever get Creatures 2,I might give this update a try if possible.


Come and Visit my site: http://sites.google.com/site/norngirl...

 
Elegnaim

Elegnaim



  5/19/2017

From what I can tell, there's a steep edge near the spring toy that anything younger than an adult can has a hard time climbing.

So even with the wraparound cob, there's basically a ledge there they can't get past.

I think GimmeCat's map edits (Better Albia 1.1) fix it.

Don't think I've encountered the crash after three in game years? About how many hours is that? I'm going to run a wolfling run to kind of soak test the wraparound cob and some other stuff with the lifts I'm trying, so I'll see if I run into it.

 
Elegnaim

Elegnaim



  5/23/2017

Okay, not sure if this is an issue with my wraparound fix cob or with my room boundary setup or possibly just the game, but I've noticed that if norns stand around the foreground wall just to the right of the science kit pickup, they experience a *ton* of pain.

Anyone experiencing anything like this?

 
Malkin

Malkin
Australia  
Manager


 visit Malkin's website: Malkin's page at CWiki
  6/2/2017

Does this go before or after Better Albia, when I install it?

My TCR Norns
 
Elegnaim

Elegnaim



  6/3/2017  1

Install Better Albia first.
 


downloads
cobs
adoptions
creaturelink
metarooms
breeds
 
gallery
art
wallpaper
screenshots
graphics
promos
sprites
dev
hack shack
script reservations
dev resources
active projects
dev forum
 
community
links
advice
chat
polls
resources
creatchi
 
forum
bookmarks
general
news
help
development
strangeo
survivor
mycaves
log in
register
lost pw
0 online
creatures caves is your #1 resource for the creatures artificial life game series: creatures, creatures 2, creatures 3, docking station, and the upcoming creatures family.

contact    help    privacy policy    terms & conditions    rules    donate    wiki