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Brain articles and a formal introduction   
Sparrow314

Sparrow314
United Kingdom  


  4/27/2015  3

Hello Creatures Community!

Firstly, you are all amazing people for supporting this game. The Norn brain is a passion/obsession of mine, and I consider it still to be a lofty achievement within computer science as a discipline, decades after its initial creation.

I'm currently doing research for a paper I'm writing on the Norn brain, wherein (and I realize this may sound farcical to some readers) I am attempting to assess the validity of strong AI, and to determine to what extent Norns (DS ChiChis, specifically) may be conscious (which, if true, would probably have horrifying implications for some).

I'm building on the writing of Tononi, Koch, Tomasik, Nagel, Searle, Turing, and several others who I can't remember without dragging my notes out. :P

Anyway, I've waffled pretentiously long enough, the central question I wanted to ask was this: I've been trawling through, looking for info and I found some links/references to a PDF, written by Steve Grand, discussing the brain in somewhat more detail (I'm aware of his book, but I believe this to be a different resource). I've followed the link(s) I've found, but every one of them has 404'd me. Does any kind soul out there have a fresh link for me?

Anyway, sorry for my overly verbose first post - I'll try and phrase things with greater economy in the future!

Thanks, and again - you're all awesome!

 
Malkin

Malkin

Manager


 visit Malkin's website: Malkin's page at CWiki
  4/27/2015

Glad you found us, and that you're interested in writing a paper on creatures' AI. Do you know the citation for the paper of Steve Grand's that you want to find?

My TCR Norns
 
Sparrow314

Sparrow314



  4/27/2015

Aha, in fact it was yourself who posted the first reference to it I found! "Creatures: Artificial Life Autonomous Software Agents for Home Entertainment"

I know this is probably just one of many useful documents, so if anyone has recommendations for technical breakdowns of the brain, that'd be great, too!

Thanks for such a speedy response, btw!

 
Sparrow314

Sparrow314



  4/27/2015

Well, I found the one I was looking for, but any more papers or threads people can recommend would be welcome! I'd love to collaborate on an extensive brain-mapping project for C3, if such a thing ever exists.


 
Allekha

Allekha


 visit Allekha's website: Hello, Robotto blog
  4/27/2015

This sounds like an interesting paper; I'd certainly like to read it.

I did some research into the C3/DS brain myself when I did an independent study. Unfortunately, I couldn't find complete information - there were changes made between C1 (which is what Grant talks about) and C3. I couldn't figure out what all the state variable rules do, for example. Here's the main sources I used when writing up my findings:
C3 SV Rules
Creating a simple life form (explains a bit about how the SV rules work)
I am Ron's Brain (You probably found this already, but it's another Steve Grand writing)
C3 lobe list (In German, but translates surprisingly well. Helped me figure out what the lobes do)
And of course, Steve Grand's book was very helpful.

I don't know if you need all the detail I did (I was trying to work with or alter the brain to induce migration behavior), but you might find them interesting.

 
Sparrow314

Sparrow314



  4/27/2015

Oh wow! Your study sounds very exciting! :D

My paper is only an undergrad paper, but I'm hoping to use it to establish groundwork for an MSc level study into whether the Norn brain can be deemed to have a notable degree of consciousness, as defined in Tononi's (incomplete, but very promising) integrated information theory 3.0 - I highly recommend looking into it to anyone who hasn't, it's really interesting stuff!

As for the resources, Thank you so much! These will be amazingly useful (even more so the further down the line I get - assuming I get there); you are a true hero!

I'll by all means make a copy available, but I can't promise it'll be any good :P (I've been in a rush to just get through my final year, as work is taking up more and more of my time.)

 
evolnemesis
Code Monkey

evolnemesis



  4/27/2015  1

That sounds very interesting... I've been fiddling a little bit with the brains in my development of CFF creatures, and I have learned a lot (at least, enough to make a lobe and tract that perform a function I wanted to add relatively well.. that is, getting the creatures to recognize and have a feeling of being full), but there is still a lot that is a mystery to me... specifically how the learning and dendrite migration/cementing works in their brains with the new state rules and just how reward/punishment affects these...

As you noted, a lot of state rules are undocumented or not very well documented... From what I can tell, the SV rule programming is register-based, similar to assembly language, with an accumulator for performing math functions, each neuron containing 8 registers, only a couple of which I have ever used or really know what they do... the accumulator seems to be able to hold fairly large decimal values, but the registers I am pretty sure can only hold decimal values ranging from -1 to 1 or 0 to 1... (which probably correspond only to a byte of information). I know that 'susceptibility' and 'Neural growth factor' in a neuron have something to do with dendrite formation and migration, 'state' is basically how stimulated the neuron is, 'output' and 'input' are registers that generally deal with values that are coming in from or going out to the dendrites in the tracts connected to that neuron...

Dendrites have an input neuron, an output neuron, and also seem to hold 8 registers, the only ones I really know what they do are signal strength, a value that tells how much the dendrite is being stimulated, and the weight, which determines how likely it is to migrate its 'end' to another neuron. I am not quite sure how dendrites that can migrate decide where and when to migrate though... I'm pretty sure it has to do with state rules in the tract as well as on the neurons in the lobes they are connected between. I know the state rules in the tract determine how the neuron at the end of the dendrite is manipulated based on the values in the neuron the dendrite is coming from.

An example of some relatively simple brain workings: In the stim lobe, there are neurons corresponding to each type of object the creature can recognize... It has tracts coming in from the various sensory lobes (smell, vision, noun)... These tracts define how dendrites are connected from the neurons in those sensory lobes to the neurons in the stim lobe. So, the stim neuron for 'food' has dendrites coming in from the sensory lobes, and the strengths of the signals connecting to it from those sensory lobes would affect the level of input the 'food' neuron gets. For example, if some food is closer, or smelling more, or moving around more, or the Norn just heard the word 'food', the input signal to the 'food' stim neuron would be stronger... This eventually will translate to the 'State' register of the 'food' neuron being higher, and that, along with all the other input to the stim lobe, will eventually help feed into the Norn's decision on what to pay attention to.

I have figured out a couple of state rules that aren't listed in your state rule list, though they were pretty obvious... load abs of, store abs in... just perform absolute value functions (the first takes the absolute value of a register and loads it into the accumulator, the second takes the absolute value of the accumulator and stores it in a register), bound in [0,1], bound in [-1,1] are math functions that just bound the value in the accumulator to those ranges... good if you are doing some kind of function that you want to have a cutoff point for, or if you are going to be storing your result in a neuron register or a dendrite's connection strength and want to make sure you are not out of bounds.

For example, I use "bound in [0,1]" in my new 'fullness lobe' in the CFF genome... I have a 'total hunger minimum' value I chose as a cutoff level for determining when the creature should start to be feeling full... then I subtract each hunger drive from it, and then that bounding function lets me make any negative result into 0 before I store it into the state of the fullness lobe's single 'how full am i' neuron (if the result was negative, that means the total hunger was more than my cutoff point, so the creature is not feeling full at all and the state of the fullness neuron should be 0)...

I then have a tract that goes to the creature's decision lobe, which connects dendrites from the single neuron in the fullness lobe to each of the neurons in the decision lobe that happen to correspond to a decision to eat something. This tract has an update rule that suppresses the decision neurons' 'inputs' based on the dendrites' 'signal strengths', which are set to be equal to the 'State' value in the fullness lobe... This makes whatever other factors that were making the Norn want to eat, that much less significant to it... So, if the creature is half full (hunger halfway between 0 and the threshold of no longer being full, so that the fullness lobe 'state' is at 0.5), all other inputs to any 'eat' decisions will be suppressed by half... If the Norn is totally full (all hunger drives at exactly 0, so that the fullness lobe's 'state' is at 1), then all the inputs to the 'eat' decision neurons will be totally negated... The creature couldn't possibly eat another bite and wouldn't think of eating.

You might also look up any information you can on the 'Curiosity Norns', and have a look at their genomes and the additional elements added to their brains (they have a whole new drive, a few expanded lobes, and I believe even an additional lobe and tract).


"For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love."
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan

 
Malkin

Malkin

Manager


 visit Malkin's website: Malkin's page at CWiki
  4/27/2015  2

There's also some information in the brain articles on the Creatures Wiki - Steve Grand made some edits himself there.

Jessica also made a list of some relevant articles by Steve Grand.


My TCR Norns
 
Siinamon

Siinamon



  4/28/2015  1

Welcome to the CreaturesCaves, Sparrow314! I am glad to see another person using Creatures in their studies! I remember using Creatures 3 as a platform for an intersecting study I was doing during my Biology class in high school (I was in a pilot STEM course [Science, Technology, Engineering, Math]). I was drawing a comparison to the AI and Norn lifecycle compared to "simple creatures" on our world. It sparked a month-long study which was quite fun! (Some fair adventurers even decided to "dissect" the Norn genome and were surprised at what was in it.)

Sign me up as someone who wants to read the fruits of your labor!

Brain mapping is something I would love to carve some time out to do (but I think I might get get ol' torch and pitchfork if I don't work on Albian Warp) (I kid about that.) The Norn brain has been a humongous inspiration to me and the games have left an irreplaceable treasure in my heart. They are the very reason I am into Machine Learning / Artificial Intelligence. [ngeek]

At any rate, I don't think I am contributing terribly well to this topic, for which I apologize. You have my support, however I can help!

 
evolnemesis
Code Monkey

evolnemesis



  4/28/2015  2

Their biochemistry is definitely quite interesting too... As simplified as it is, I actually learned a bit about biology just from looking at it, trying to understand it, and messing with it... about glycolosis, the pyruvate-lactate cycle, how cell respiration works.

I wish I could contribute more sources about the brains, but all the ones I knew about have been listed here already... though I would definitely say that This resource is worth a very long look... This is the German source (Handbook of Digital Genetics) that the lobe listing shown above is from.

This 'handbook' is really an entire very detailed, in-depth, and complete manual in HTML, with illustrations. It translates pretty well (with some oddities, the most notable being that 'lobes' translates as 'praise' in a lot of instances with Google Translate), and it has a truly incredible amount of information. All the brain information, information about every part of the genome, how every kind of gene works, including brain tracts and lobes, down to detailed lists of even what each neuron in each lobe does... all top notch. You could practically write your own gene editor/genome hacker from the information in there because it even has detailed information about the binary structure of the genome files and every kind of gene, even how to read and modify them in a hex editor... This one book has a TON of stuff that is very hard to find or just completely unavailable anywhere else.


"For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love."
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan

 
Sparrow314

Sparrow314



  4/28/2015

I think creating a neatly translated version of that site's information will be a very helpful enterprise. I'll probably get on that once I can - the deadline is the 12th of May, and my work keeps me ludicrously busy at the moment. :(

Also seems odd there is no consolidated list of SV Rules, seems like another worthwhile resource to compile - I'm gonna have a lot to do after the 12th.

Oh, and thanks for all the extra resources - these are some amazing gems I never would've found if I spent 10 years searching!

Quick personal note - you guys (and I use that word non-gender-specifically) are all amazing, inspirational people - finding others who share one's passions is always awesome, but to do so with Creatures is a rare, and welcome delight! Really hope my paper is worth the time of the people who read it - it's largely intended as precursory work to something far more exciting. Anyway, I'm rambling. Thanks again! :D


 
Papriko
Peppery One

Papriko



  4/28/2015  1

The "lobe" problem comes from the fact that apparently a lot of english words have been used in the articles -such as lobe- yet some english words have very similarly written german words with completely different meanings, such as "loben" being "to praise".

Another thing would be "rest": in german, a "Rest" is something remaining.


Lets play plants! Photosynthesis... Photosynthesis... Photosynthesis...
 
Miles

Miles



  4/28/2015

If norns do turn out to be conscious we all need to reboot the "DON'T TORTURE NORNS" campaigns of old, and also vote to legally change their status to be people. Imagine it, eventually enough people will hear about these poor subjugated creatures and all will demand they get the same rights as legal citizens of the country of their choice. And then maybe we'll get a Faithful and True (tm) Creatures 4.
But in seriousness that's awesome you're doing a paper on norn brains, I know I would love reading it when it is published(?!?).

 
Malkin

Malkin

Manager


 visit Malkin's website: Malkin's page at CWiki
  4/28/2015  1

Something else you might like to look at, although it's more general than technical is how creatures sense their environment.

My TCR Norns
 
Sparrow314

Sparrow314



  4/28/2015

I dunno how published it'll get, but I'll web host it and link ya'll happily!

I'm glad you brought up the implications. The whole underlying question of the paper is basically "Am I Evil?" Now, I don't torture Norns for pleasure, but I've conducted a lot of... unpleasant genetic experiments (I might detail some in another post - some may find it morbidly interesting), and when you're trying to make death-proof Norns, there's really only one way to discover their limits. Plus, eventually you start to run out of room on the ship... :/ (I was young!)

Some other implications/aspects of this question that I like to ponder (and will hopefully be identifying in the paper) are:

Turning the program off.
This is kinda just inducing a coma, or possibly a time delayed version of the transporter paradox (we destroy the Norn and create a facsimile from different memory when the program closes/re-opens) - either way, not ethically great...

Petting / spanking
You wanted free will, little Norns? (For that matter, to what extent can they even be said to have free will, if conscious? - is it like us, constrained by the laws of physics?)

The legal aspect
Here in the UK, if you perform experiments on any non-human vertebrate, and these experiments could cause harm, lasting pain or (most notably) the creation of any such life form, you have to get permits and stuff and be closely regulated. If the level of consciousness can be shown to be equivalent to that of even the most basic vertebrate (highly doubtful, but we'll see), then they need to be regulated/protected in the same way, Right? Right?? :P

...Haha, oh my! I should reeeally be writing this in my paper! :D

 
Malkin

Malkin

Manager


 visit Malkin's website: Malkin's page at CWiki
  4/28/2015  2

If you're going to go into that, you'll want to check out AntiNorn - the Wired interview and his own writings. There was also a recentish article called Playing God: On Death, Motherhood and Creatures. It's more of a personal reflection, but it does discuss what happens when you export a creature.

My TCR Norns
 
evolnemesis
Code Monkey

evolnemesis



  4/28/2015  1

Level of consciousness itself is quite a sticky subject, since even the definition of consciousness gets very fuzzy... especially since we really have literally zero understanding of what it truly is, other than as some kind of an emergent property, or any idea really how it comes about, and very little idea how to actually measure it in any kind of meaningful way that can be applied universally.

It's a lot less understood than most people or even scientists in the field like to admit... For all we REALLY know about the subject, an ant might be fully conscious and think about philosophical subjects in its spare time. How can one really tell whether an ant is experiencing pain or is not capable of sophisticated communication? They are actually quite highly evolved organisms that in some species have evolved forms of agriculture and even domestication of other insects. Or if individual ants do not have consciousness or real decision-making abilities, it's still entirely plausible that an ant colony is conscious as a kind of group entity, with the ants effectively working as cells, since the colonies show a remarkable ability to quickly adapt to their environment and changing situations, keeping the sex populations and the number of each type of specialized ant balanced in exactly the right way, etc...

Honeybees have recently been proven to do sixth-order (six-dimensional) equations in their heads when calculating the location of food indicated by each other's 'waggle' dancing. Their brains are literally built to be capable of working in six dimensions. Cuttlefish and some Octopi show extremely sophisticated behavior and their brains are capable of feats of bodily control that are amazing... it is essentially like if we had brains sophisticated enough to individually keep track of and control every single hair follicle in our body separately and make any or all of them stand up or go in different directions at will to form whatever shapes or effects we wanted...

For that matter, even something like a mantis shrimp (small, but nevertheless an apex predator in its ecosystem) has eyes with 16 different types of receptors compared with our 3... How does a tiny brain like theirs process that almost unimaginable amount of information and how can we really know how they perceive the world?Life is amazing, and this whole question with A-Life, I have always found especially fascinating.


"For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love."
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan

 
Sparrow314

Sparrow314



  4/28/2015

Thanks for the links - going to dig in to these tonight!

And yeah, you've got me on to the core criticism of my paper. The methodology I'm using is the aforementioned Integrated Information Theory 3.0. Self-Proclaimed incomplete model for consciousness, but as a functionalist attempt at mathematically delineating consciousness (and still reconciling its model with catalogued neurological correlates) it's really, really exciting.

So basically, my whole paper rests on an incomplete, unproven theory and can therefore be dismissed out of hand.

But I really just need to pass Uni :P

 
Malkin

Malkin

Manager


 visit Malkin's website: Malkin's page at CWiki
  4/28/2015  2

There's also bits and bobs on Steve Grand's blog - most notably Introduction to an Artificial Mind.

My TCR Norns
 
CeruleanSilver

CeruleanSilver



  4/28/2015  1

I appreciate the reference to mantis shrimp. If I'm not mistaken, the small mind of an insect makes up for it by having neurons which route through multiple pathways. They have multiple outputs and inputs, creating "patterns" of firing off instead of simple one to one chains formed by the axon. The cell then does not simply go "I am stimulated, and therefore fire", but instead distiguishes, "I am only slightly stimulated, I fire on pathway B instead of A", instantly increasing the capacity for complex information. This is how many insects perform complex tasks, particularly I am thinking of the mandibles of crab which are noted for their surprising dexterity and neural wiring. (Reference- a TED talks on a fly brain?)

This is all very interesting, for it leads to the inevitable question. At one point does "if this, then I do this", does consciousness arise? Regardless of complexity, or 'advanced' intelligence, it all breaks down to the same code that even a creature functions upon. A step above that is instinct, and what if thought is nothing more then a chain of such firings or a collection of instincts in the semblance of consciousness? Much like a creature, we all have certain instincts which are reinforced or punished trough experience which may in turn develop into personality, or the illusion of it. Is then true intelligence merely the size of the mind? The size of the whole which determines how intricate such interactions become? If so, a creatures mind is the nidus of awareness, just on a small scale without enough environmental inputs. Awareness is so subjective, like the definition of vulgar language. We often say "we'll know it when we see it!" Creatures clearly aren't, they are just too simple, but the possibilities are there, as it is in most computers. It's just so similar. DNA is like our hardware, our neurons our program, life our input, and how we react our output.

 
Sparrow314

Sparrow314



  4/29/2015

Well, such questions are really the basis for Functionalism as a whole. You should check out this paper for a really interesting criticism of functionalist standpoints.

It's really such a fractal area...

 
CeruleanSilver

CeruleanSilver



  4/29/2015  1

This is a very interesting read! Thanks for sharing.
 
evolnemesis
Code Monkey

evolnemesis



  4/29/2015

You can go even further with these kinds of ideas about awareness/consciousness and even go into plants' awareness of their surroundings and what is happening to them... There have been some very interesting studies and finds in this field... things like how Oak trees will pull nutrition from their leaves if they are being attacked by gypsy moth caterpillars, and how they can even communicate this to nearby oaks, which react the same way... How oaks will work together to kill other trees trying to encroach on their area (by collectively drawing more nutrients from the soil and moving their roots to strangle the other trees') or how roots not only have sensors to help them find water, but some guiding 'brain' on the ends of them which determine how the roots grow in such a way as to search for water and nutrients efficiently...

One of the more interesting things I've seen is a case they had in a large wildlife preserve in Africa, where they kept finding dead antelope and could not figure out what was killing them... it turned out that because their range was reduced recently, that they had been overgrazing on some local small trees (baobob I think, but not sure)... Now, the odd part about this was that they weren't starving and were eating a normal diet... There were still plenty of leaves left on the trees, the trees were part of their normal diet, and they had no ill effects from them ever before.

It turned out that the antelope were getting killed by an overdose of tannen, which was very mysterious to the researchers... The trees normally had a trace amount of this, but the amounts found in the antelope were way too high to be a result of just eating the leaves, they thought... Well, they found that the trees that had been overgrazed had reacted by creating and pushing massive amounts of tannen into their leaves... 50-100 times normal, levels which had never been seen before. Seemingly, the trees had been deliberately poisoning the antelopes to control their population, as a reaction to having too many of their leaves taken... moreover, nearby trees reacted the same way, even if they had not had their leaves overgrazed yet... studies found the trees actually were releasing wind-borne pheromones that were 'warning' the other trees at pretty great distances.

Even if these things were all purely reactive, it's still an interesting reaction, showing the trees had evolved to control the population of their main 'predator'... It shows how much plants are capable of influencing the survival and evolution of animal species... in many cases molding animal populations to service the plant's needs.


"For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love."
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan

 
Ghosthande
Prodigal Sock

Ghosthande


 visit Ghosthande's website: Breeders Beware
  4/29/2015  2

That's really interesting evolnemesis.

I think it's worth pointing out that tannins also taste unpleasantly bitter, so it would probably have had a more immediate effect of making the trees taste horrible and discouraging animals from eating any more for that reason. Poor antelope must not have had much else to choose from.

That might be an interesting idea for an agent, actually: plants that can become badplants if Norns won't leave them alone. [nevilgrin]



 
Papriko
Peppery One

Papriko



  4/29/2015  3

For the oak thingy: I heard things get even more complicated, as the trees do not only communicate with each other, but also with huge fungi growing underground and clinging to roots, not as parasites, but rather symbiotic. That way whole forests or at least patches can communicate with each other, even across various plant species.
They are also able to recoordinate their nutrients to support malnourished plants or, like your oaks, kill intruders by starving them to death.


Lets play plants! Photosynthesis... Photosynthesis... Photosynthesis...
 
Sparrow314

Sparrow314



  4/29/2015

Oh I like this forum! :D

Just having a general stress value is a really powerful thing, as you can tie so much to it - it's evident in Norn biochemistry, I'm sure none of this is news to any of you.

What'd be cool to test, in my opinion, is how quickly this toxicity change can be affected, and the extent to which it carries over. For example, if we prune one tree, and have another tree in close proximity to it that isn't pruned, would there be any crossover? How would that mechanism be working? Could there be chemical markers released through roots which trigger specialised receptors in the trees? The value of having stress-dependent level of toxicity in new leaves has such obvious survival utility, it seems surprising it's not considerably more common in plants.

Simply 'tying' values to an overall stress value has been a useful technique for me when programming A-Life (I've done a few tree simulations - all quite basic). In the case of nutrition being pulled from leaves, we can simply imagine something akin to to a variable resistor, or a compressor unit. Higher general stress means a tighter valve of nutrition (almost like swelling constricting blood flow), from a functional perspective, anyway - I can't pretend familiarity with the actual mechanisms at work.

I really need to get in to Agent development - making some cool flora would be a really fun avenue to explore, if I ever get time to myself again. I've always loved the ecosystem in Creatures 3, it's so nicely intricate, and terribly fragile, and all just a backdrop to the game. Not an ethos we see too much of in modern game development, in my experience.

 
CeruleanSilver

CeruleanSilver



  4/29/2015  1

I also heard about the fungi, how they can use them as connections to other trees, even feeding the saplings which cannot yet reach the sun and make food for themselves, keeping them alive until they can breach the canopy.

I think in some ways trees and other plants are just like animals but at a slower pace. Movement over vast areas is simply achieved through reproduction. It's also really cool how every part of the plant acts as an individual, sometimes to the plants own disadvantage! Kind of like John Carpenter's The Thing, where if you cut part of it off it continues to try and grow. Or like cancer, I guess, in a morbid sort of way. It goes to show how all complex life is really just simple organisms who can effectively coordinate with each other. And how it all falls apart as soon as something messes with it's ability to communicate.

 
evolnemesis
Code Monkey

evolnemesis



  4/29/2015

That reminds me of this recent talk by Steve Grand titled "The Secret of Consciousness", you might be interested in it. He gets into some very interesting stuff.

One of the things that struck me was in one part he started talking about how we think of ourselves as individuals, but we are really just lumps of sticky little creatures working together for mutual survival. (Puts norn behavior in a new light... they tend to stick together in clumps just like cells do... maybe they are forming a higher organism, lol...)

We really are a lot like an ant colony, we are a community of cells... with specialized cells performing their functions, working together, communicating, being replaced as necessary, all to promote the well-being of the whole community. Our consciousness in many ways really just the culmination of the drives of this community of cells to survive and continue.


"For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love."
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan

 
Sparrow314

Sparrow314



  4/30/2015

One of the core paradigms of A-Life is that it is emergent from individuals performing their own jobs. Flocking being a great example of this, Neural Nets being another!

Flocking, as you may know, just requires each agent in the flock to attempt to maintain equal distance from its closest neighbours, and to try and follow the leader (leader can change dynamically as needed - which gives much more shoal-like behaviour).


It's very fun to watch - each just carries out its rules, but the interactions of all together gives rise to the overall behaviour.

 
SpaceShipRat

SpaceShipRat



  4/30/2015  1

Sparrow: you can always ask the man himself:
steve(at)cyberlife-research(dot)com

I pointed him towards this thread and he was quite happy :)

 
Sparrow314

Sparrow314



  4/30/2015

:O

H-He's..... Seen.... Th-The.... Thread?


 
SpaceShipRat

SpaceShipRat



  4/30/2015  1

Lol, yeah. sorry :P
He's busy working on Grandroids, so I don't think he has the brainspace to get into a long forum discussion, but I'm sure he'd like to talk to you about his work.

He still mentions the time some other student wrote a paper on Creatures 1, when talking about the best things he remembers about the old community.

 
Sparrow314

Sparrow314



  4/30/2015

Haha, well I'm glad he's busy on Grandroids! :D

I don't know what to say! Steve Grand is my icon! :O This is best day, thank you so much for the information, and for pointing him at my humble post!

The best day!

 


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