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 Prodigal Sock Ghosthande    |
I was thinking about this earlier this morning. Norns are said to have come from Hoppities, and Grendels from Uglee (which explains their obsession with eggs). But there is no indicated species from which the Shee engineered the Ettins. So what species are Ettins derived from? Is there a species on Albia (or the Shee Ark, or even Earth) that could be an Ettin ancestor? Or do you think it might have been a combination of different things (like how the Lone Shee made the Zebra Norns), and if so, what? Personally they remind me of some kind of insect, but I'd like to hear other peoples' opinions on this.  |
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 SpringRain |
Maybe they came from grasshoppers? Their eyes seem really similar to them and they're also placed in about the same spot. Lol, just a guess!  I'm back after 11 years. Holy dooley! |
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 Dreamnorn |
... This never occurred to me. o_O I think this calls for someone to make an evolution theory for all three of these creatures!  *sets off to work with her futile programs*  |
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 Sixty Third Karias |
.. I thought the Ettins were a mistake, some genetic mistake, or something like that. (?) Oh, and I really don't get the whole Hoppities and Uglees thing - Creatures 2 and Creatures already showed us small blips of the creation process, and there was no such thing involved.. I think they just love changing their story each release. -Karias; a bit fruity and gone bananas in the wrong climate! |
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Prodigal Sock Ghosthande |
What "small blips"? I don't recall any "small blips". |
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 Officer-1BDI |
I have NEVER heard the Hoppity-->Norn/Uglee-->Grendel theory discussed outside the context of whimsical fan theory. Is that actually an "official hypothesis" of their evolutions? I think the Grendels were the genetic mishap, while the Ettins were created on purpose to act as servants, but it's been a while since I picked that up and I can't remember the source of those tidbits for the life of me. You have to be honest with yourself when you are writing. If that leads to somewhere unexpected then perhaps you really needed to go there. -- Jim Adkins |
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 Malkin Manager |
Nobody mention the Banshee... <_< The Truth About Grendels doesn't mention any evolutionary theories, I don't think... I seem to recall something like the norns being made out of sugar and spice and all things nice, and grendels being made out of snips and snails and puppy dogs' tails. Norns were like 'house boys', who assisted with tea and crumpets, and ettins were much more workhousey. My TCR Norns |
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 Draconorn |
I've always thought the ettins resemble a really mutilated version of the C2 Shee statue, but then again I'm weird like that. |
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 Un_Oso |
The Uglee's info+right-click description mentions they may be an ancestor of the Grendel. The Hoppity's mentions Norns, but suggests they share a common ancester. |
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 AquaShee |
The Shee probably got DNA from all over the place to make the Norns, Ettins and, accidentally, Grendels. That's perhaps why the Splicer can't splice regular Albian animals, since their genes aren't "made" to be so easily copied and altered. The C2 intro film shows a tiny spider being scanned as it crawls over the egg-layer, I think the spider genes might have been added into the C2 grendels. Their bulbous back looks a bit like a spider's bottom. Perhaps the Grendel Mother is a machine herself? It explains why the grendels in C3 reproduce like Norns do once you make a female. In C2 the grendels couldn't mate since they had the spider DNA added. So if the Grendel Mother is a machine that adds DNA to her children when needed, it possibly explains how the Uglee got in there. This is all speculation, of course. I don't think the people at Creature Labs ever had a storyline ready, and just fitted things in as they came up. The Community Scribble: make (y)our own metaroom! |
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Prodigal Sock Ghosthande |
Un_Oso's right; the lineage info is right in the critter's info. I'm pretty sure that means it qualifies as "official hypothesis". I don't think CLabs had a real storyline, either; it was more of a "mythology" based on real mythology that was eventually modified to fit into the game world. According to the official story, Grendels were a mistake; the Ettins were the Shee's second attempt and were used as construction workers. The Norns were the "final product" and were meant to be able to serve tea and act as maid for the Shee. I always thought the Grendels in C2 were called Spider Grendels. They do look spiderish to me. Is this not true? |
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Malkin Manager |
I think Steve Grand wanted to use Norse mythology for "flavour" - to place the world in the traditions of the great symbols which still exist in our society. Trouble was, as soon as he mentioned "Norse mythology", everyone thought he wanted Creatures to be an RPG... XD My TCR Norns |
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Officer-1BDI |
Un_Oso's right; the lineage info is right in the critter's info. I'm pretty sure that means it qualifies as "official hypothesis". So it would. *headdesk* It's been forever since I picked up C3 and played it. Thanks for the explanation. I always thought the Grendels in C2 were called Spider Grendels. They do look spiderish to me. Is this not true? According to the Wiki, they're called Bulbous Grendels, but I'm not entirely sure where the name comes from. You have to be honest with yourself when you are writing. If that leads to somewhere unexpected then perhaps you really needed to go there. -- Jim Adkins |
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 Squishy-Fudge |
i think the name comes from their funny back x3 just a hunch. get it? hunch? ...no? -brick'd- |
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Prodigal Sock Ghosthande |
I know that's what the Wiki calls them, but that's the only place I've seen them called Bulbous Grendels. |
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Squishy-Fudge |
i've seen loads of sites call them bulbous grendels. such as nornenmeister's breed list and his winged bulbous grendels |
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Prodigal Sock Ghosthande |
Huh. I have to agree with SpringRain, the Ettins do remind me of insects just a little. Because of how pale they are, I'm tempted to say termites, although that would be awfully ironic given that they were supposed to be construction workers. |
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KC11 |
For some reason, the ettins remind me of what I imagine Shee to look like. Kinda going off Draconorn's example there, with some C3 elements mixed in. Do not upset the ugly worm, lest it be a dragon in disguise. (>oo)> |
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Prodigal Sock Ghosthande |
...Who's GM? |
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KC11 |
Agh dramn I meant Draconorn. >_< That new grendel avatar tripped me up. Do not upset the ugly worm, lest it be a dragon in disguise. (>oo)> |
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Lone--Wanderer |
Ettins look kind of like things that would've started in caves or underground; they're very pale and don't have anything to defend themselves with. |
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Dreamnorn |
I figure that the Ettins, Grendels, and Norns are all experiments from the Shee, and don't truly have a predecessor. But, of course, that doesn't mean they can't EVOLVE. I wonder what evolved ones would look like...?  |
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Prodigal Sock Ghosthande |
But even the Shee ought to be practical enough to use a genetic donor--the existence of Hoppities and Uglee support this, since they look so much like Norns and Grendels--and not start completely from scratch. It wouldn't be feasible, or even possible, unless they're actually immortal. |
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 ws1fish |
Ettins make me think of an albino version of the Podlings from The Dark Crystal. any takers? mmmmmmmmm. also since we only get the hoppities>norns and uglees>grendels thing in c3, and neither species was in 1 or 2, we can surmise that either a] CL made up the information on a whim without anything to back it up and forgot the ettins must also come from somewhere, or decided it wouldn't matter, figuring without an obsessive fanbase like ourselves, or b] the ancestors of the ettins went extinct before the ship was made, or got left behind on albia because they weren't necessary, or all became pirates or something. that's all i can think of directly now... if we're not the change we want to see if we're not the change, who will be? |
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 liddell |
oh i think i got it they siad that there would be to new spechis they might be the hoppities and the uglees for all that i know ettins might be half shee and half norn is a gerndel and ettin king Liddell 8) |
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Prodigal Sock Ghosthande |
I don't think that's much of a problem, since C3 *predates* C1 and C2 in the official timeline; remember the Shee were already gone from Albia in C1. It's completely possible that some of the species on the Ark just went extinct on Albia at some point after the Ark launched. Given the official timeline, there were several centuries of time between the games, and you know how fast some of the creatures on the ship can die out. There weren't any apple trees or volcanoes in C1 Albia, so no source of food for the Hoppities and Gnarlers, and no Gnarlers means no Uglee. |
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Officer-1BDI |
I don't think that's much of a problem, since C3 *predates* C1 and C2 in the official timeline While the events that led to the creation of the Ark predate C1 and C2, the absence of any Shee and the virtually empty status of the ship(s) until the Hand appears indicates, IMO, that the game itself takes place much later than the launching of the Ark, possibly even during or after C2. And DS (which you didn't bring up but I feel the annoying need to mention it anyway) has to take place at least after C1 because of the whole volcano plot. ...Now that I think of it, the Lone Shee story suggests that there was still one Shee left on Albia in C1, since it was his launching of the Capillata that transformed C1 into C2. Suddenly GW's desire to decanonize the story is a lot more understandable. It's completely possible that some of the species on the Ark just went extinct on Albia at some point after the Ark launched. This I agree with 100%, and it would explain the absence of the species in the first two games. You have to be honest with yourself when you are writing. If that leads to somewhere unexpected then perhaps you really needed to go there. -- Jim Adkins |
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Prodigal Sock Ghosthande |
The fact that Creatures 3 was meant to predate C1 and C2 was clearly stated on the official timeline as found here. I'm not thrilled about the idea myself, but that's when Creatures Labs wanted it to take place, and that makes it canon. |
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Officer-1BDI |
So it does. I've seen that timeline before, too. 'Think I'd actually remember it for once. :/ ... But since it's on the table, that timeline always bugged me.... *brick'd* You have to be honest with yourself when you are writing. If that leads to somewhere unexpected then perhaps you really needed to go there. -- Jim Adkins |
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ws1fish |
not wishing to seem ungrateful to CL, but i agree. it's a timeline that smacks of retroactivity... if we're not the change we want to see if we're not the change, who will be? |
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