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 BaffleBlend   |
I want to look at how my norns develop differently from each other personality-wise. But either no differences are popping up at all, or I just don't know where to look for them. What do you do when looking for (or trying to develop) distinct personalities in each creature? |
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 Jabber |
The way Creatures is set up doesn't really lend itself to the development of personalities, as far as I can tell. Maybe one of the CFE/CFF/something else genomes allows that kind of thing; I haven't played with them much and I don't know a whole lot about them off the top of my head. |
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 Lurhstaap  |
I don't agree that Creatures isn't set up to allow for personalities, but I do think you have to adjust your concept of what 'personality' means. A lot of what we think of as 'personality' traits are manifested by genes for Creatures. But people may not be thinking of those as aspects of 'personality' specifically because they are genetic, 'hard coded'. But we have no knowledge IRL to say otherwise, so why draw a line in the sand over it? For all we know, IRL, human personality is genetically specified, too. So I don't worry about that too much. Basically, as your Norns mutate from breeding, you will notice more divergence, and when an odd mutant pops up he or she will seem to have a more distinct 'personality'. For example, my Grendeltails all have some GENERAL traits that they all manifest, but over time, individuals develop weird mutations that sometimes make it into the wider gene pool and become a broader Grendeltail trait, but sometimes don't. For example at some point one of them developed a mutation that made him or her obsessed with manky. At this point that mutation has spread to a large part of the Grendeltail gene pool, but the first Norn to have it would have seemed to have a unique personality trait relative to the others - his or her love of manky. By the same token, one of the Grendeltails I have uploaded here, Zen, has a distinctive personality compared to other Grendeltails. He likes to pace, for one thing, and just generally doesn't act quite the same. So I do think personality is a thing, but it's subtle and mostly gene-based. EDIT: After thinking about this, I do want to add that I feel that C1 Norns show individuality more often than C3DS Norns. I have no idea why that should be the case, but I have rarely had trouble finding personality differences between C1 Norns. Possibly it's because back then even Hatchery eggs used two parent genomes, so no two were ever quite the same genetically. Conclude with killer catchphrase. (Lurhstaap) "This is not knowledge - this is information!" New Model Army, "Courage" |
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BaffleBlend |
Lurhstaap wrote: Things like this is what I mean; genes and accidental learned behaviors. I know the engine isn't set up to handle more than one thought at once, making a true personality an impossibility, but I also know genetic and environmental influences can cause a norm to develop differently. Am I right about the environmental factors? For example, will the "reward/punishment" drive coax a creature towards a particular behavior if it just happens to occur more often because the creature knows a higher reward from the favored behavior? This is what caused Wallbonking, for example, isn't it? |
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Lurhstaap |
Absolutely - at least in C1 and C2, so I'm quite sure it's true in C3DS as well. For example, are you familiar with the concept of Norn torture? On AntiNorn's website - back before half of the Creatures websites in existence went down - you used to be able to download .exp files for C1 and, later, C2 Norns he'd turned into quivering wrecks. Sometimes they had genetic alterations of a sadistic nature, but in most cases they were purely the result of viciously negative training. For example, I recall one in particular that he trained to eat weeds by smacking it no matter what it did EXCEPT if it ate weeds, only then tickling it. Not only did it eat weeds, but it was terrified of everything else. Creatures DO have the ability to learn and they remember things that happen to them. The similarity you often see in clusters of closely-associated Norns is as much because they all grew up in a similar environment and had similar experiences as anything else half the time. Granted, this also depends to some degree on the Creature in question, which brings us back to genes. "Smarter" Creatures, those with bigger Concept lobes specifically IIRC, will remember more and be able to learn more. Conclude with killer catchphrase. (Lurhstaap) "This is not knowledge - this is information!" New Model Army, "Courage" |
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 Code Monkey evolnemesis |
CFF (1.1), Evos, and TWB have some slightly more random behavior patterns that tend to give them more of an ability to develop individual quirks than others thanks to having a tweak to their brains that give them little bit more unpredictability in their random thoughts than other C3/DS genomes, as well as a few more kind of 'natural' weak instincts that they could try playing with or eating various non-typical things if they can't think of anything else better to do... Typical C3/DS Creatures tend to be pretty stodgy and conservative with trying new things on their own past babyhood, and tend to stick to instinctive or learned behaviors, so they do feel a little samey a lot of the time, just kind of following their programming. For example, a normal typical norn might go its entire life without ever deciding to even look at a weed or a piece of detritus just because it doesn't know of any positive use for them... likewise, it might never really try a potion, or pulling anything except lifts because all the instincts for anything else are only for eat or push... You'll often only see big differences in behavior from mutants. Still, as pointed out, with different environments, learning, and stuff you can start to see noticeable differences, even in ones with identical genetics (norns who grew up feeling very crowded all the time may tend to be antisocial, for example... or one norn might prefer fruit and another one nuts as a starch source depending on what happened to be more available to it). With the newer CFF 1.1-based genetics which include these brain changes, they are more interested than normal in random things and trying random actions with everything to see what works. They still learn what they like and doesn't work just as well as any others though... This makes them tend to behave more curiously, more like C1 Norns, with a better capability to try different things, and better chance to find individual things they happen to have tried that they like a lot which are quite different to what some other creature might have tried and decided it liked more. "For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love." "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan |
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BaffleBlend |
All of my creatures tend to be CFF with the exception of Seru Norns and any exotic breeds I want to introduce into the pool. I should probably throw some TWB in there, too, though, if they're different as well. Speaking of Seru, does that mash up their genes in unpredictable ways, too, or does it just mix up body parts and keep the inner workings relatively tame? |
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 Wrong Banshee Dragoler |
BaffleBlend wrote: Be aware that TWBs have a vital body system (thermoregulation) that other genomes don't have, so there is a good chance any cross-breeds could suffer as a result of inheriting only parts of it. Creator of the TWB/TCB genome base.  |
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 the1whoscreams |
SERU splices five random genomes together with insane mutation rates. |
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 Malkin Manager |
A long while ago, Steve Grand wrote a book chapter about this very subject - how to give the impression of personalities. My TCR Norns |
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