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Help Forum Draconian Norns (C3DS)    Lurhstaap        2/26/2016 A couple questions about these guys. I remember them from C1 and it's fun to play with them again but they seem more fragile than I remember. In particular I can't seem to keep them warm enough without storing them in the Desert - even the Amphibious ones, which is kind of annoying. It doesn't matter how many steam rocks I put down, and the environmental controls are already set to max heat and light in the Norn Terrarium. They have plenty of bugs and such, but they just keep shivering now and then, and it's worse when I try to put them in Deep Abyss - again, regardless of how many steam rocks. I tried some stuff meant for Fire Norns but it either killed them or didn't help any more than the steam rocks seem to. Am I just doomed to keep them only in the Desert terrarium or is there more I can do to make the Norn Terrarium and Deep Sea metaroom more hospitable to them? They keep complaining they're 'really high up', too, even though they're not. And speaking of that metaroom, none of the swimming agents seem to work for it. The amphibious Draconians are supposed to be able to swim with swimming agent, but it's not happening. Does that only work for certain metarooms, or is it a bug with the norns? (And why do they get treated as norns by the game when they're geats anyway?) Conclude with killer catchphrase. (Lurhstaap) "This is not knowledge - this is information!" New Model Army, "Courage"   Sanely Insane RisenAngel Manager     2/26/2016  1 First off: Draconian Norns are indeed Norns, not Geats. In C3/DS a creature's species is independent of the breed slot their sprites are in (in fact, it's fully possible to have a creature whose sprites are a mixture of norn, grendel, ettin, and geat slots). As for your other questions: If you're using the Improved Swimming Agent /Swimming Agent V2, Amphibious Draconians don't have the ability to use that one naturally. They need the Swimmeragent included with the Aquanorns, which is a different agent entirely. You can get them to swim with my Swimming Agent if you manually inject them with Chemical 63, though. Amphibious Draconians will want to go down if they're not underwater; it's a trait they share with the aforementioned Aquanorns. Keep them underwater and the problem will go away. Draconians, and most other breeds outside of Dragoler's True Warmbloods, aren't affected by temperature changes in their environment; they get warmed up and cooled down by various arbitrary actions as decided by their stimulus genes. So the best way to keep your Draconians warm is to have a bunch of agents that provide heat (as in the Hotness drive; agents that raise the surrounding temperature level usually won't do the job). To this end I can recommend the Feuerameise and Feuerling from the Grendel Warehouse. Both provide small amounts of heat that won't kill your norns unless they overindulge, and the former is classified as "pest" but is harmless, which is especially good as Draconians have strong instincts for eating pests. Unfortunately, neither of these are much good for aquatic worlds and they lack aquatic equivalents. Now that I have the idea, I may look into making something similar for aquatic worlds if I ever get back into developing or playing Creatures. ~ The Realm ~ Risen Angel's Creatures Blog   Lurhstaap     2/26/2016 Huh, that explains that! Very interesting. I'm more used to C1 so I took the statement that they were in 'Geat Slot Z' to mean the same thing it would've in C1. And I did get the one that comes with Aquanorns, too, but come to think of it I don't remember if I actually tried it yet. If it doesn't work, either, then my suspect for the culprit will be the metaroom I guess. Well that explains why they were happier in the Desert, then... that's where the Fire Ants go. The Fire Butterflies refuse to live anywhere but the Norn Meso though which is a real pain. And it'd be nice if I could make the ants move, too, since the Desert is kind of small for my purposes. I tried importing them to other terrariums but they all died and failed to reproduce even with a lot of flowers and detritus (for the ants to eat) available. Shouldn't the Steam Rocks help though since they were specifically designed for Draconians? I also don't understand why the normal Draconians fuss about their height. The Amphibious ones I understand from your explanation but the normal ones do it too. Thanks very much for taking the time to explain the details! EDIT: Oops. The Aquanorn agent worked, for swimming... but then it said "(name) very hurt" and abruptly died. It wasn't ill so I'm really puzzled. o.O is that Anemone agent poisonous to touch?? Conclude with killer catchphrase. (Lurhstaap) "This is not knowledge - this is information!" New Model Army, "Courage"   Sanely Insane RisenAngel Manager     2/26/2016 None of the Swimming Agents (not even that old outdated one in the depths of CCave's Download Section) are metaroom specific; I can say this with certainty as I've looked at their code (and made the Swimming Agent V2). Try looking for Fire Ant Queens (the ones with wings that fly around) when trying to move the Fire Ants. They're the ones that make the nests. Once the queen's settled down and made a nest, you may need to baby the nest a little by dropping bits of detritus around it for the ants to pick up. The Steam Rock, to my knowledge, just increases CA 2 and 3 in the local environment. It doesn't actually affect the Hotness drive at all (I think; it's possible that creatures playing with it will get a slight shot of Hotness), so it actually won't do anything to help. Kind of sad, but true. Not sure why your normal Draconians are having up drive problems, unless you're mistaking your Amphibious Draconians for normal ones/the ones with up drive problems are crossbreeds between the two varieties. It's possible you have an agent installed that might be messing with them? The purple Anemones (the ones classified as "Weed" ) are poisonous, though I don't think they're that dangerous (they just inject creatures with some Geddonase when pushed, and Geddonase isn't the most dangerous of toxins). Draconians must just be that fragile. Either way, I don't think the Swimmeragent had anything to do with it, though I suppose it's a possibility. ~ The Realm ~ Risen Angel's Creatures Blog   Lurhstaap     2/26/2016 Aha! I didn't notice any flying around but I'll watch for them. Assuming there's not much I can do about the butterflies though? *headdesk* Well that's silly. It's all right though.. they were happy enough in the Desert, which I'm guessing was due to the massive population of Fire Ants, so if I can just get the ants settled in the other land areas I wanted to keep the landgoers in, that should take care of those. Not sure what to do for the poor Amphibious ones though. I have no head at all for code but it's enough to make me want to try to figure out so I can make them an effective heat-source agent! The only thing that's been at all helpful so far other than the fire ants (and the butterflies, before they all die or get eaten by browsing Norns) has been this Cocoa Machine agent - the cocoa apparently gives a small hit of Hotness. Don't think it'll be enough by itself though (and cocoa under the sea is a bit weird anyway). On reflection, I think what killed him was stupidity. Part of why I didn't think the Aquanorn agent was working at first was I didn't realize they wouldn't just start floating around like the fish do - they have to CHOOSE to swim, and if not they'll just sit there. And I didn't realize he was taking damage at first while sitting in a patch of anemones. >.> If he'd had the smarts to get his butt off them instead of sitting on them for 30 seconds he might've lived. I moved him, but he made a beeline for another purple patch and that's when he died. He lived long enough for me to see that the swimming patch was in fact working, but his drive to mess with weeds was his undoing I guess. I didn't associate the two things at the time but now knowing the purple ones are even mildly poisonous, I get it. He was an adolescent - an adult probably would've lived, at least assuming it finally got off the anemones. x.x; I love the sprites but these guys are so much work. I have to actually pay attention to them pretty consistently - hard work when I've gotten used to letting everything half-feral or straight wolfling a lot of the time. Conclude with killer catchphrase. (Lurhstaap) "This is not knowledge - this is information!" New Model Army, "Courage"   Malkin Manager     2/26/2016 I seem to recall the Sun Cozy worked better than the Steam Rock. My TCR Norns   Lurhstaap     2/26/2016 Where can I get it? The sites I've found it on the link was down or the site itself was down and the archive was incomplete. CreaturesFrance supposedly has it but I don't speak or read French and while I was able to find some of the agents I wanted on CF, the Sun Cozy was not one of them. If you know where I can get it I'd be VERY grateful! Conclude with killer catchphrase. (Lurhstaap) "This is not knowledge - this is information!" New Model Army, "Courage"   Malkin Manager     2/26/2016 The Sun Cozy is on Creatures France, in the 'Cat Pack'. click on Agents, then "Télécharger des agents". It's on the fourth page of the "Les utilitaires" section. My TCR Norns   Lurhstaap     2/26/2016 Awesome, thanks so much - got it! Now hopefully my Dracos will quit shivering so much! (Although one of them worked out a... unique... way of dealing with the situation - she'd deliberately hit the Grill agent so that it'd spit hot coals everywhere... not a solution I would have advised, but hey, their Coldness dropped to 0 until the coals started decaying.) Conclude with killer catchphrase. (Lurhstaap) "This is not knowledge - this is information!" New Model Army, "Courage"   Wrong Banshee Dragoler     2/27/2016 You can move the butterflys, it takes a bit of work but all they need are plants for their caterpillars to mature then they can survive (so long as they aren't all eaten). I will add... truly cold-blooded creatures are on my to-do list, so maybe I can make you a version of Draconian Norns who actually care about temperature some time in the future. Creator of the TWB/TCB genome base.   Lurhstaap     2/28/2016 It's taken a bit of training - I have to wait until they shiver, then isolate them with the sun cozy so it's the only 'toy' nearby, then tell them to 'get' and 'push toy'. With that done though they've become little reptilian Linuses - at any given time, at least one is typically dragging a blanket around. XD I know they're basically Skinner-box critters, all stimulus-response, but sometimes the type of learning the Creatures alife is capable of really impresses me. Are they even able to distinguish between one 'toy' and another, except by the effects they experience when interacting with it? Even if that's all they have to go by it seems to be enough for the smarter ones (the dumb ones forget sometimes and need reminding.) I have to admit, that would delight me greatly. I'm slowly learning the C3/DS Genetics Kit (it's just similar enough to C1 for me to get myself in trouble so far but I'm getting there) but I hesitate to mess with other people's stuff too much. I figured out what was happening with the ants and butterflies, too. It was two main problems. Firstly, I was introducing them late in the world's existence, and the existing ecology ate them up - the bug-eating critters and so forth. (This factor NOT being helped by grazing creatures - the Draconians aren't the only ones who'll munch a passing bug on impulse.) The second problem, aggravating the first, was that I'd released those bouncing beasts from the Jungle into the Norn Terrarium. My Dracos like eating beasts, so I figured they'd be a good food source. What I didn't realize at the time was that those things eat everything. Not only was I unable to colonize fire ants or feuerlings, but the normal ants, butterflies, and dragonflies went extinct. (And my Draconians ate most of the grazers, but I expected that.) Sooooo for that world I got rid of the bouncing things (caught them all one by one and threw them in the recycler), but they've still failed to take a few times. In other worlds made subsequently I have managed to colonize the Norn Terrarium with feuerlings by making sure to inject them as one of the agents used in the first hour or so of the world's existence. And I think I have one world where I managed to catch some flying fire ants and colonize them in the same room. In any event, once I manage to get both of the fire bugs in the Norn Terrarium (I'd use the Meso but it's too small for my taste) I'll just move my primary Draco colony to that world-instance and they won't have to play Linus any more. :p Conclude with killer catchphrase. (Lurhstaap) "This is not knowledge - this is information!" New Model Army, "Courage"   Malkin Manager     2/28/2016 I'm glad to hear that your norns have been enjoying the sun cozy, and that you've been able to train them to expect toys to make them warmer. It's amazing that the ecology of the world can make such a difference. Have you tried the Sriracha Sauce, Hot Pepper Vendor, Juala flowers or the Instant Noodles? My TCR Norns   Lurhstaap     2/29/2016 It's not a perfect solution - I have to hand-train each one (no pun intended) to make the connection, and when I've let them wolfling the trained ones don't seem to be able to communicate what to do to the untrained ones, other than the fascinating but unhelpful tendency for the trained Norns to say stuff like "Maybe move left" when the others complain of coldness - the direction given generally being the one which would move the cold Norn closer to a 'toy' type object. I really do wish they could distinguish between different objects in the same class - I wonder if Grandroids will have this ability? But it's definitely better than before. Unfortunately it turns out that the Draconians have a specific attraction to eating fire ants and Feuerlings. I put them in a fresh new world with nicely colonized firebugs, and they ate them all. Eventually every ant colony was wiped out, and the butterflies didn't make it an hour. I'm not sure if it's because of the Hotness, but they snack on nearby fire bugs preferentially over other bugs. So that's not working as well as I hoped either. :p At this point I've been driven to trying to make my dyscalculiac brain comprehend code so I can just make them a Hotness-emitting agent that they can't devour to extinction and don't have to personally 'push' or 'eat' to get benefit from. I have not used those specific ones, although I did discover the flowers and the set they come from just today. I'm working on getting Garden Box so I can use that sort of thing. I do have a Cocoa Machine vendor that vends potions that give a small hit of Hotness, which helps a bit too. The problem is they tend to ignore potions unless I specifically tell them to eat potion, so it's not the best solution for when I'm AFK (I like to leave the game on when I go to bed or leave the house or just doing other things on the computer). Being foods might help though since they're pretty voracious creatures. Conclude with killer catchphrase. (Lurhstaap) "This is not knowledge - this is information!" New Model Army, "Courage"

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