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General Forum Creatures Archive    ham5ter        2/12/2015  1 Everyday more and more Creatures related Websites disappear, and with them disappearing a lot of valuable Stuff (Agents, Breeds, Tutorials, Creatures etc...) get Lost forever! I cant stand this anymore! *Jumps onto Table* No seriously though, we should start preserving all these Websites to stop this Loss. My basic Idea is to run a Website/Archiv like the Internet archive is doing, but with the Focus on Creatures related Sites. See: Archive.org By preserving and indexing all the Creatures Websites, we can also make all the Data more accessible, i.e. if you are looking for, lets say, a Agent, you can easily make a request on the Creatures archive. But, before i start to just Crawl everybody's websites, i wanted to check if this Ideas gets positive response in the Community My current Plan would be to create a index of all the Creatures related Websites that till today exist. Luckily we have a rather large LINK Collection, and i know some good other link Resssources (Creatures.wiki, Creatures.de) and then (slowly) start to crawl all the Sites with a Tool like "wget", and automate the process of Course! moep!   Peppery One Papriko   2/12/2015 Some people have picky copyrights and as people in this community usually listen to them, it leads to some agents going eternally missing, as you are not allowed to re-host them. I can imagine you will run into similar problems. But for people who do allow it, there is the C3DS Archive. Maybe the site can be expanded on the other games as well. Lets play plants! Photosynthesis... Photosynthesis... Photosynthesis...   Tea Queen Laura     2/12/2015 I want it put on record that my agents may be archived, just so long as it's also okay with anyone I've collaborated with and that the appropriate credit is given. I'll actually be thrilled if my agents do end up being hosted or archived. I made them in order to share them with other people in the first place, and it'll just mean that even more people will get to use them!   KittyTikara     2/12/2015  1 I think someone else planning something similar, though I don't think they got very far. (I think it was K@nilb?) I think it's a great idea. Feel free to archive anything I've made now, or will make in the future. One website I'd love to be archived is Seeyou7. It has a very useful genetics manual and one of the more complete breed lists. Not to mention it's agent list. The Mobula Ray - My Creatures blog   Prodigal Sock Ghosthande     2/12/2015 ^ Very good advice. Re-hosting agents without permission has caused a lot of flame wars in the past, and Creatures Caves itself has specific policies about what agents can be hosted here (eg. only if the creator has given permission or if their rehosting policy is unknown and all attempts to contact them have failed). I can only imagine that a lot of people, myself included, would have objections to seeing their entire web sites being copied and republished wholesale somewhere else, regardless of the intentions. Correct me if I'm wrong, but comparing your idea to Archive.org, it sounds a bit like that's what you're proposing?   Razgriz   2/12/2015 Just throwing in my own two cents here. In consideration to feelings such as those that Ghosthande has, I suggest that only the "useful" bits of websites be archived. Tutorials, listings, etc, and of course agents/cobs/breeds. No artwork or backgrounds should be taken, if there's pictures that are relevant to what is actually being archived, then those should be thrown in. The way Ghosthande setup her tutorial pages would be a great template for the archived pages if you ask me. I realize my idea isn't perfect but this is all that I can come up with to avoid stealing the uniqueness of currently existing sites, so to speak.   Norngirl     2/12/2015 Yeah archives might be good, but as the rest said, it truly depend on how its planned, there been so many atempts before, but no go. I for one is not happy to see my things spread around from my page or even re-packed etc when my site and even I am still reachable..I allready had that happen few times and think that as long my page is there , people can show some respect and let my site be the original source of my things as it is still up and running- it may not look fancy but good enough to hold my downloads.Unless something dosn't work or can't be downloaded- they can still ask me, I don't bite. Of course, old stuff that is no where to be seen and the person is out of reach- I can see sort of this being helpful in a way. I know that some people might think I and anyone else who are like me who put heart, soul and lot of work into our creation might be seen as over protective over our things then rather greatful for people enjoy and secure share all over, but I guess thats because some people might not fully credit the creator or just spread around when the site is not even dead. Well that is my view of it. I doubt any of my things need to be archived as Creatures never dies for me and alltought im more of a lurker now, I am still around. There is a few people who got my ok having some stuff hosted but that is because they stayed in contact and asked or the thing was a collab between me and the other person, who been a part creating it too and have as much right to host it on its site (mostly Agents). If you still want to list my things, I still rather think a link back to the page would be better as long the site still alive. If the day comes my stuff vanish and if I wpuld not be around, I guess I would be ok if it the things stayed as it should without any edit it somehow and that it give proper credit to the original creators. It is not a honour thing, its just a nice thing to acknowledge the people who created and spend theyre time to make it then share it with the rest. I know I haven't update for a long time, but it works still, the only thing I might fix is the CAtoDs pack.. Phew, felt I haf to say that and hope it could be said without any flamewars starting or so, unlesd my part is ignored (it is a long rant). Everyone have theyre opinion and thats mine, But since I dont know what you had in mind for the archive idea, I can't say much more, as it might be better handled then what others have come up with so far. Also I write via phone, so spelling and words may be coming out werd..   ham5ter     2/13/2015 Lets say, i have a Website, with lots of cool stuff, but i get killed by a Puppy Stampede. (its a Thing!) You would probably not notice, but my Provider and Hoster will notice that, and my Website will eventually disappear. *puff* to late, everything is gone. How about this, i will make a archived website only then open to the public, if the original website disappears, till then, i just archive everything, but i wont publish anything? Of course i would, even after the disappearance of a website, try to contact the Owner of the Site first, but if they don't respond in a given time, i would make the Archived Version of the Site public! Of Course i would on any Sign of the Site Coming Back, or the owner not wanting the Site to be re-hosted in the Archive take it down! And you could just Opt Out, to begin with, but keep in Mind, that if your Site disappear, and there is no way to contact you, your Stuff is probably gone forever One Could also consider to release it's Work under a more "free" license, but that is another Topic i guess moep!   Prodigal Sock Ghosthande     2/13/2015 The fact that a site can disappear is pretty common knowledge, considering how many have been lost to this community in the past. *cough* No one is arguing that it doesn't or can't happen. It's just the idea of duplicating other peoples' content while their sites still exist that is a bit of a sensitive topic. Only publishing an archived version once the original site is down seems very fair. That way the content is still accessible, but it will not be detracting visitors from the real site, offering out of date agent versions, et cetera, which would be potential issues while the original site still exists. In terms of permission, what you've described is essentially the same as CCaves's own policy... if a creator has known preferences, they are respected. If not, every attempt is made to contact the person to ask them. If they cannot be contacted, it is hosted unless they reappear to ask otherwise. I would say that it is a good strategy, fair for everyone involved, and we've seen few complaints about it.   ham5ter     2/13/2015 Is there a ruleset which i could use to allign to it? I dont want to reinvent the wheel to much, and if People are OK with the pollicys over here i am more than happy to adapt them, as far as posible! moep!   Prodigal Sock Ghosthande     2/13/2015 The only rules I'm aware of are what you and I have already said, so I think you've pretty much hit the nail on the head already.   Siinamon   2/13/2015  2 As long as you provide an option for people to contact you to remove their files, you will be fine. That is how WebCite, Internet Memory Foundation, and the Internet Archive (and others) work. This website has probably been scooped up into at least half a dozen other archives. Taking a look at that list of archives, too, you will notice that pretty much all of them are targeted at a specific crowd, and upon further investigation, it seems that almost all of them have a way to contest your data and have it removed. (That is by no means an exclusive list; those are just ones that serve 1) public interest, or 2) corporations). Archival of websites, as I think ham5ter wants to do, will/must include full metadata to show the source, cite the proper author, and give due credit however else it can. As for the concerns that Norngirl has, most archival sites do link back to the original and encourage traffic to go visit the latest version of the website (the one they do not control). Also of note: web archive copies generally look like poo since they only grab the data, not the style, of websites. So it's not like people will prefer it over the real location if it is still online. If you do not want your things copied, do not put them online. Anything put online, has, will, or will be copied, stored, and otherwise become out of your control. That is the nature of the Internet.   ham5ter     2/18/2015 Ok then, i will put this on my todo List. If i have new Information i will update this thread. moep!   Norn_master   2/18/2015 If you want to put creatures USB on there as a utility tool or something, go ahead. As I said before, anyone can host it anywhere. I think this is a great idea. Your one stop shop for anything. Better then hunting down stuff on the creatures wiki. It’s a me! Dvader0086 from the’a Discord!

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