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 Moe    |
Is there a way to stim a creature so it learns, but not have it inject the default "I have been stimulated in such a manner" chemicals, as outlined in their genetics? EDIT: On second thought, that would probably remove the entire learning process wouldn't it? The Norn wouldn't "get" anything out of the action and the learning would be null. *sigh* I just wish I could inject my OWN chemicals and have the Norn learn from that. XD If anyone has any more information about the stimulation and learning process, do come forth. |
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 Malkin Manager |
Maybe RatBoy's Brain Tutorials, the Handbuch der digitalen Genetik für Creatures 3/Docking Station und ältere Versionenor the CFE tutorial might shed some light on the brain situation? I know in C1, it was possible to create instincts which said 'if I have done such and such an action, give me a jolt of reward or punishment', (if you were creative, it could be used to do things like 'I'm with my brother, I become unamorous') but I don't know how such a thing is done in C3/DS. My TCR Norns |
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Moe |
I have an update to my question... Is anyone sure why the stimulus for seeds is actually "eaten plant"? Because my Norns are staring at the nut plants trying to eat them, while surrounded by actual nuts, starving to death from lack of starch... |
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 Patient Pirate ylukyun Manager |
I always figured "eaten plant" really meant "eaten seed".. the instincts have 8 and 3, no idea what those are but I would herald a guess at seed and fruit. My creatures always suggest "maybe eat seed" to starch hunger. Are you using any unusual breeds? :/ |
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Moe |
I seemed to have fixed the problem.  And yes, those instincts are for eat seed, eat fruit, and eat food. Somewhere along the lines my Norns must have gotten confused. Seriously, they were saying "maybe left something" at one point. XD New Norns however do fine. I might have confused them, or the genome was bad. They were C1toDS Norns. |
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Patient Pirate ylukyun Manager |
They tend to get mucked up instincts after 200 generations or so  However mine often say "maybe right something" in response to friendliness. Even first generation CFEs appear to do this. O_O I wonder if "something" refers to a geat in these cases, or just a generic object.. |
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 Amaikokonut |
I must ask; I am curious what you did to fix the problem, as I have been trying to figure out how to do the same thing over the past few days-- get creatures to learn without going through those pre-defined genetic stims, especially when no stim exists for what you're trying to get the creature to do. I think I have had some luck if I use DRIV to let the agent lower their drives rather than CHEM-- they seem to learn even without the stim writ... but I am not actually sure if that is working or if I am just seeing what I want to see. Did you find something similar or did you have another solution? Regarding ylukyun's oddities, "maybe right something" or "maybe left something" seem to be generic "I don't know" responses, as I found when experimenting with instinct-less norns. In which case it might make sense that younger creatures don't know how to respond to friendliness since the "push norns when friendly" instinct doesn't kick in until the norn is old enough to breed. If you're getting this response from first-gen adult norns though, that is quite strange and may warrant a look into the genome.  [Naturing :: Nurturing] |
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Moe |
Oh unfortunately I did not solve that problem Amaikokonut. :/ I just got my Norns to eat the stupid seeds. XD Any information that you can provide about instincts and learning would be helpful! |
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Patient Pirate ylukyun Manager |
maybe right something" or "maybe left something" seem to be generic "I don't know" responses, as I found when experimenting with instinct-less norns. In which case it might make sense that younger creatures don't know how to respond to friendliness since the "push norns when friendly" instinct doesn't kick in until the norn is old enough to breed. I think you are correct. My ettin was stating "maybe (left/right) something" in response to boredom. As a youth, she now suggests to get gadget. I saw the no instincts post.. will have to try it some time. Although I prefer self-sufficient creatures, it will be fun. |
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Amaikokonut |
Aww, I misread and jumped to conclusions, sorry Moe, ): I'm curious as to what you are trying to do and if DRIV might help. I have been toying with a script allowing creatures to eat each other-- the main problem I'm having is that there is no stim for "eat ettin" or so on, so the creatures have no idea what they are doing and don't learn from it. The learning process is still quite a mystery to me, but I can tell you what I -think- I've found. I took a creature with no pre-set instincts, locked it in a room with a bunch of ettins, and injected the script that made them edible-- this one only reduced the drives using CHEM (149, 150, 151 and the actual nutrients), and though he ate them as I told him to, he went all the way to adulthood and when another creature complained of hunger, the test subject only said, "maybe left something." So for the second round, same process, but instead of using CHEM to decrease its drives, I used DRIV (1, 2, 3, along with chems for the actual nutrients). This time the creature seemed to eat the ettins even without prompting, and at 19 minutes old when another creature complained of hunger, he actually responded with, "maybe eat ettin." From that one might conclude that DRIV is the solution to learning without stims, but attempts to recreate the results of this experiment have been... spotty. The only thing that stays consistent is that I've never had a creature learn from the CHEM-based script, but learning from the DRIV-based scriot seems to sometimes takes as long as adulthood. So it might be too slow or unpredictable of a learning system to be reliable. However, I have realized that the instinct-less creatures I'm working with have some awkward sleeping habits, and I think sleeping affects learning, so I plan on trying it again with creatures that sleep better and see if they learn better. Does this seem like something that might be helpful or are you doing something completely different? (Hope no ettin enthusiasts were offended by this post! I have nothing against ettins, I just needed food that wasn't instinctively going to beat my experiments to death) [Naturing :: Nurturing] |
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Patient Pirate ylukyun Manager |
Ettins are always going on about eating each other anyway What you're doing sounds pretty awesome. I love the look of the scripts you're developing. |
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