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 sam999   |
silvak wrote: I know. That, and the sheer convenience of portable transporters as shown in Past Seas and the C3toDS rooms are why I suggested it in the first place. silvak wrote: Based on the look of the dome, which is really cool I'd say either a shee starship or an asteroid. silvak wrote: As for Mea, Mudpup, and Ettina I have no idea but do you think this link to some free 3D models of trees might be useful? |
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 Malkin Manager |
Does it absolutely have to be the classic lift? A pair of up-down teleporters might be easier to code - something like the elevines, but fixed in place. My TCR Norns |
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 silvak |
A teleporter would make sense in such a cold environment. Less moving parts means less places for it to break. I don't know what the elevines are, so I'm going to go see if I can find those. Lost Content, help find it a home! |
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Malkin Manager |
The elevines were released by Amaikokonut during the last CCSF.  My TCR Norns |
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silvak |
Which was why I didn't know about it and couldn't find it on the wiki........ Those would be amazing!! They don't need a shaft, but would there need to be one to link the CA? Or could that be built into the "call buttons"? Lost Content, help find it a home! |
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Malkin Manager |
CA linking is built into the C3 lifts, but is handled in DS by the cos file "lift ca linkers.cos". It seems fairly simple to do. My TCR Norns |
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silvak |
Learn something new everyday! I just wanted to make sure the CA would flow freely. But now I don't have to worry about shafts in the background. Lost Content, help find it a home! |
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 Liam |
Why are you CA linking? As long as all the rooms connect you don't need to do anything of the sort. - Liam / K'aeloree Spellhold Studios, a Baldur's Gate II, Neverwinter Nights and Oblivion Modding Community |
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Malkin Manager |
Some smells, like food, fruit and seed, don't travel vertically without CA linking. If I vend a piece of cheese in the C3 Engineering Room, the smell quickly permeates to the lower levels, helping a creature find the cheese, but the permeation doesn't happen in a world like Terra Nornia, where the lifts aren't CA linked. If the underground section ends up with more than one level and those levels are meant to be connected, linking would probably be helpful. As I understand it, the intention is for the room to not have many food sources - so being able to smell them everywhere would help creatures be able to eat. It'd probably be more important in high metarooms, rather than long metarooms, but it doesn't hurt to do so. My TCR Norns |
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Liam |
But every area should be connected by rooms. I mean, it's not a good idea to send norns in a lift through a null area, they're not built to handle it. It's always best to map as much as possible and just make use of room permiability for that reason. I checked and you're right, of course, if the levels aren't linked then you need to link them; my point is more you shouldn't need to do that, because it's good practice to design them so they are. - Liam / K'aeloree Spellhold Studios, a Baldur's Gate II, Neverwinter Nights and Oblivion Modding Community |
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sam999 |
Malkin wrote: How about having them look like snow covered telsa coils which move the creature in a crackling burst of electricity? More of the Norse/Scandinavian/Techno-Shee look? About the stuff regarding how the CA must flow, I really don't understand it very well so can't comment besides "maybe normal lifts would be a better idea?" Being coders, Liam and Malkin probably understand this sort of thing. |
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 Gumbo |
I can't freaking wait for this! Looking amazing! in the spring you gotta let the flowers fully blossom |
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silvak |
I feel so ignorant listening to you both, but I think I followed. So it's a good practice to design so that CA flows freely without the need to be "linked", but also to link anyway to allow for creatures to find food better? So......graphicly......how should I be designing this? Lost Content, help find it a home! |
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Liam |
You only need to CA linked if the areas aren't connected by rooms. It's best to design so that all areas are linked with rooms. - Liam / K'aeloree Spellhold Studios, a Baldur's Gate II, Neverwinter Nights and Oblivion Modding Community |
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Malkin Manager |
Rooms that are only linked vertically don't allow food CAs to permeate, though - the food CAs lay on unlinked levels like a wet blanket, rather than permeating through the lift shaft rooms to the level below like a smoke. Without CA linking, a creature can't smell the cheese downstairs. To design around this would be to make everything be on the same level, which limits the usable space. Also, Sam, thanks for the laugh - 'Malkin is a coder so she should understand'. XD My TCR Norns |
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silvak |
Thanx you two! Shafts it is.......maybe they could be styled more like air shafts than lift shafts as that would be their main purpose. More steampunky-ness, which will make Sam happy. Lost Content, help find it a home! |
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Liam |
 Malkin is totally right, I just checked. Jesus, CL, you dumb. - Liam / K'aeloree Spellhold Studios, a Baldur's Gate II, Neverwinter Nights and Oblivion Modding Community |
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Malkin Manager |
Thank you, Liam. The 'lift shafts' could look like sunbeam-style spotlight thingies? My TCR Norns |
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silvak |
Liam You do have to wonder sometimes. Lost Content, help find it a home! |
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sam999 |
An idea that may be dumb but... ...why have the CA shafts be seen at all? Wouldn't it work to make the shafts as thin as the game allows, covered up by foreground imagery and on the ends have things like the C2 bridges but using sprites so they looked normally snowy to keep norns and agents from falling or getting stuck in them? Or, as silvak wrote: |
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Malkin Manager |
You're right, Sam - if we link the upstairs and downstairs by CA, assuming we've got teleporters and not lifts, we don't have to have vertically-connected rooms to allow CA to move between levels. I think we're getting bogged down in minutiae here - having a pair of teleporters which have a CA link between them based on "lift ca linkers.cos" will do. We won't really know what we need to do until we firm up the ideas for the room and the background. We've decided on pine cone seeds and winter berries, but what about food? My TCR Norns |
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silvak |
Spot on, Malkin. We should move on. Regarding food......there should be at least one edible critter. Also to have food more handy should the hand want it, I had been including a greenhouse underground. It would have a sealable door should the hand wish to have the creatures "rough it". The little freezers would store food for later use or even eggs should the population be too much for the environment. Possible idea might be a form of grass that lives under the snow might work. Caribou do that. Or make edible tree bark, as that is occasionally used as emergency fodder by animals. Termites or a grub of some kind.....they wouldn't need to be an actual critter, but could simply look like one. Sap from the trees......Maybe have a maple/pine, which turns red in the "spring" (in game season, not literal) and have the sap seep out It would be cool to have seasonal plants so the animals and creatures have to vary sources since food is so scarce.....maybe no all but some of them that don't reproduce......like the tree sap. Lost Content, help find it a home! |
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Malkin Manager |
What about 'food-the-category' in particular, not just 'food-the-substance'? My TCR Norns |
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sam999 |
So for food we have: 1. Pinecone seeds 2. Some sort of grass under the snow 3. Edible tree bark 4. Grubs and termites 5. Sap from the trees 6. My own idea, an oven in the heated lower caves that makes roast turkey. After all, it's easy to get hungry on just deer food. |
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 Patient Pirate ylukyun Manager |
Food-the-category items could be various types of tubers that differ by season? Potatoes, yams, cassava. The real ones are starchy but it fits with the games' classification of carrots etc. as food. I also really like the turkey idea, but I think it should be able to be deactivated, like the greenhouse, so that creatures can "rough it"  |
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Malkin Manager |
Or... what about a turnip for food, using the sprites here or here? We could even have the white skinny ones growing on the surface and the red full ones growing in the greenhouse. My TCR Norns |
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Patient Pirate ylukyun Manager |
I had forgotten about those. They'd be perfect for turnips, and carrots, maybe even yams and sweet potatoes. |
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sam999 |
ylukyun wrote: Seasonal Tubers are a good idea yes, perfect food for the norn roughing it. ylukyun wrote: How about this idea? The upper snowy levels are arctic and only have wild food, and not a lot of it at that. Underground the steampunk caves have prepared sheeish food, I.E. tea, cheese the turkey, hot coco and other such foods. The telaporter between the upper and lower level can be locked by the hand however, making it invisible to creatures. This would allow for "roughing it" in arctic WRs. In fact, the idea of the upper tundra and pine forest having only natural arctic stuff, and the lower caves having processed steampunk/shee food, toys and sprites. |
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silvak |
Food-the-Category?.......sorry I'm unfamiliar with that term. Great ideas with the other tubers and even the turkey/oven too! And being deactivatable too, should be easy to add.......or maybe a master control offswitch for all the non-native food sources. Having transporter buttons with a built-in hiding feature would be really cool! If we are going to have it, might as well have it on all the levels. Then you could quarantine or isolate a norn or two. Lost Content, help find it a home! |
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 Prodigal Sock Ghosthande |
Categories are words Norns use to describe agents, eg. 'critter', 'toy', 'Norn'. Malkin was referring to the category of edible objects known as 'food', like cheese, carrots, honey, etc., not to edible objects in general. Most Norns are hard-wired to look for certain types of foods to meet certain drives, and some will literally starve to death even though there are plenty of fruit, critters and seeds around, because they're only looking for 'food'. I think that's what Malkin was aiming at.  |
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sam999 |
silvak wrote: That was more-or-less what I was thinking. On top, we have the arctic wasteland with sparse natural food kind of like KT but with the main dangers being starving or freezing into a nornsicle rather then being eaten by dinosaurs. Below, we have a steampunk mini-room containing odd mechanical toys and cooked food. There are telaporters and/or lifts between the two levels which can be locked for WRs in the upper ice wastes or norn-care in the lower steampunk room. P.S. Do you think we could see a Chione Improved 0.4 concept drawing incorporating what we added to the room? |
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Malkin Manager |
Thank you Ghosthande. Norns have certain nutritional needs - and are instinctually wired to satisfy them in certain ways, and have set stimuli that dictate what objects do to creatures. While a norn could learn that hunger for fat is satisfied by a fatty pine nut, his primary preference will still be for food to satisfy his hunger for fat. If we keep "Ron and Eve" and the hand in mind when rationalising Chione, so much the better. Sam - some of the steampunk toy items could be classed as 'machinery' and 'gadget' as well, to cater to Chichi-clone breeds and any wandering Ettins. My TCR Norns |
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sam999 |
Malkin wrote: Seems like a good idea to me. Now the only question regarding toys is... what should they be? |
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silvak |
Sam999 Actually I think it's version 0.6......I mixed things up with v0.4 and had the forest low and the plains higher. It wasn't worth sharing. v0.5 while still incorporating the lift shafts, was pretty much includes all the other features. I did move the pond out from the edge and put a tunnel/tube going through it. And it would be much longer, like v0.3. I'll need to work on v0.6 for a completed and up-to-date look, which isn't a problem. (I had forgotten I hadn't shared v0.5 with you all yet.) Thanx Malkin, having some "machinery" and "gadgets" included would be really nice, and to be remembered. "Remember Ron and Eve"??? Lost Content, help find it a home! |
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Gumbo |
As for toys, some suggestions: Some brassy musical instruments. A steam-powered teapot. (  )A steam-powered robot of some sort, maybe a cat or something. Helicopter-ball. Snowblower. Mechanical Santa, produces one random toy from all downloaded toys every time he is pushed. in the spring you gotta let the flowers fully blossom |
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