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xenosaurus
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5/27/2017 | |
So, I've been fiddling with a few different breeds, and I have some questions! I know I've been asking a lot of questions lately but hopefully I'll transition out of the newbie stage soon. Thank you all so much for your patience!
I've been using the 2017 CFF genes, and for the most part, they've been working fantastically! However, I was wondering a few things. If there are links somewhere that I've missed for explanations, I would appreciate them!
1-- Can older CFF and 2017 CFF norns breed safely? For that matter, can CFF and CFE norns breed at all? There are some breeds based on the CFE genome I've been wanting to add to my gene pools but I'm not sure what kind of brain problems that would cause. I'll just start a separate CFE gene pool if they aren't compatible.
2-- My toxic norns seem... fairly dumb by comparison to the rest of my norns. While the others pass the IQ test within a few minutes, the toxic norns just stand in the workshop for ages with no desire to leave. Is this something about toxic norns, the genome or my particular game? I've tried this in 3 worlds and the problem seems to be persisting.
3-- What's the difference between CFE and CFF norns in terms of intelligence? I've been enjoying breeding for intelligence and self-sufficiency, so I'm curious about this.
4-- How do TWB norns work? Are they compatible with CFE or CFF norns?
5-- Apart from CFE, CFF and TWB norns, what other genomes are people using?
6-- What's a gizmo norn? Is it a subtype of CFE norn or am I misinterpreting it? Can those breeds safely mate with CFE or CFF norns? |
Malkin
Manager
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5/27/2017 | |
The foods that toxic norns want to eat have no smell. I think that this means they are unlikely to want to navigate to it, therefore failing the IQ test.
Allekha made a really good blog post a while back about a few different genomes.
My TCR Norns |
xenosaurus
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5/27/2017 | |
Interesting! I didn't realize quite how much scent played into the IQ test.
That is a very helpful blog post!!! Thank you very much! |
Lurhstaap
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5/28/2017 | |
The IQ test is NOT actually an IQ test. It's a CA navigation ability test. Period. My Dragons, including the ones with the specialized brain edits, will fail it every time, because even with Prey Scent in use, their prey MOVES, where normal fruit/seeds/food does not. So navigating by it is much more difficult. They can navigate, but it's not nearly as straightforward as it is for normal Norns. Basically, any breed that has modified eating habits will probably do poorly.
CFFS in general also tend to not do as well as it, in my experience, because of the randomization in their brains that makes it harder for them to focus on a given idea for a long period of time. (This feature is also how they develop personality, though, where normal as-sold-with-the-game Norns tend to be very same-y.)
Conclude with killer catchphrase.
(Lurhstaap)
"This is not knowledge -
this is information!"
New Model Army, "Courage" |
Malkin
Manager
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5/28/2017 | |
It's also a mobility/agent obsession test.
My TCR Norns |
Lurhstaap
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5/28/2017 | |
True - fair point. But yeah, just keep in mind that what that test evaluates isn't actually "intelligence".
You also have to keep in mind what your definition of "intelligence" is. If your definition is 'able to survive on their own without problems', then my brainedits are stupider than standard Norns. The edits that allow them to develop personality and have more sophisticated social networks also cause some occasional individuals (not most, but some) to develop maladaptive behaviors that lead to an early death.
Is this realistic? Yes. Look at how people behave. Many of us die much sooner than we could have because - for example - we'd rather eat whatever we want, no matter how bad it is for us, than eat in a healthy way.
But does it mean the survival rate of individuals left to wolf is lower than that of more 'robotic' breeds, who all make the 'correct' decision pretty much every time? Yes.
So that's something to remember too. In my view of what constitutes intelligence, my brainedits (CLARITY EDIT: really, they're Geat_Masta's edits for the most part, I've just implemented and tested them) are -far- smarter than a standard Norn. But if you're solely looking at 'how often does the Norn make the 'correct' decision in a given situation', they fail next to standard Norns. But most people prefer CFE, CFF, etc. to standard Norns precisely BECAUSE they're more varied and therefore more interesting. CFEs, CFFs, and these latest brainedits exhibit more complex, individualized learning and behavior, which makes them more lifelike. But the result of that is that a few individuals learn stupid stuff and don't do very well.
In short, you can have a kind of 'intelligence' that ensures that all individuals more or less do the same things and therefore pretty much all have the same 'survivability', or you can have a kind of 'intelligence' that ensures that individuals learn and develop in different ways, so that no two are quite alike as adults, and some are more 'survivable' than others. The latter is more realistic, and what most people seem to wind up preferring based on the relative popularity of the available genomes. But not everyone uses Creatures the same way or has the same idea of what's fun or worthwhile. Plenty of people use the base genomes and were/are fine with that. So it all boils down to what you want. That's the beauty of this software. It's flexible.
Conclude with killer catchphrase.
(Lurhstaap)
"This is not knowledge -
this is information!"
New Model Army, "Courage" |
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