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Wolfing runs always fail around hour 5.   
Aliena

Aliena



  4/26/2017

I have sone around 100 wolfing runs, and 99% of them have failed around the fifth hour, when wolftmate detects there are too few of them and stops it.

Is there any way I can pinpoint the cause and solve it? I see everyone here upload high gen creatures, but mine rarely reach tenth generation.

 
Malkin

Malkin

Manager


 visit Malkin's website: Malkin's page at CWiki
  4/26/2017

Do you have the No Seasonal Gender Bias? Do you max out your breeding limit when you start off a new world?

Norns have a very fixed lifespan of around 5-6 hours - it sounds like your first generation dies off without leaving any eggs behind.


My TCR Norns
 
Aliena

Aliena



  4/26/2017

Actually, they do breed. They just die off at gen 5-8 for some reason. Maybe a combination of food shortage (killing a fair share of them) and scattering (once food is available again, they are too far from each other to breed)?
 
Malkin

Malkin

Manager


 visit Malkin's website: Malkin's page at CWiki
  4/26/2017

Even so, gender bias can cause single-gender worlds if all your elderly creatures die in one of the biased seasons (and thus all your eggs hatch as boys). How large are your worlds - are you using a docked game? Are you using the temperature-sensitive True Warmbloods? Have you ever tried the Corpse-Cleaner cos file?

My TCR Norns
 
Aliena

Aliena



  4/26/2017

Uhmmm... let me think.

I remember installing the no gender bias a while ago. In most of my failed runs, there are roughly haf of each sex at the end.

My worlds are pretty large. I use magic words to delete the CA links on the needle, so creatures don't try to cross to the docking station (I like the world undocked, but then I wouldn't have the option to easily control the max population, or to use many mods made for DS)

All other doors and buttons (except the needle one) are left as is.

Also, no ettins or grendels in any of my runs. Most norns die of starvation because they wander off, but there's always a healthy ammount in the norn terrarium (up to hour 5, when they die like flies)

I'm not using warmbloods (didn't hear of them until now) or corpse cleaning (caused an error in my game)

 
Malkin

Malkin

Manager


 visit Malkin's website: Malkin's page at CWiki
  4/26/2017

Thanks for the extra info. Have you tried Brainfarter? It might help stop your creatures from dying in corridors.

My TCR Norns
 
Aliena

Aliena



  4/26/2017

Won't the brainfarter interfere with my attempts of creating a norn capable of surviving without intervention?

I'm afraid that having their brain artificially cleaned could help nonviable norns survive.

 
Malkin

Malkin

Manager


 visit Malkin's website: Malkin's page at CWiki
  4/26/2017

DS includes a bug called Eat Elevator Syndrome which hijacks their brain and can cause them to starve to death in the corridors. Otherwise-viable creatures can die if they fall prey to this bug.

Can you check in the crypt where your creatures tend to die?


My TCR Norns
 
Wingheart

Wingheart



  4/27/2017  1

Brainfarter basically just makes sure a buggy navigation script doesn't make creatures get stuck trying to do an action that get no response at all. Looking at the creature with a script monitor shows that no scripts are running, which is only ever the case when a creature's making a new decision-which is supposed to only take a very small number of ticks. Sometimes it'll run an involuntary action script, but its brain is frozen and it's essentially paralyzed. Very rarely you can snap them out of it by putting food near them, probably because their brain is trying to eat seed/fruit/food but there's none there so they're stuck trying to do an invalid action.


As I understand it, a creature afflicted with EES has no scripts running in it, because it's waiting for a stimulus that the engine won't let it even try. Everything is stuck. Its neurons are ready to think "eat food", if it had its scripts running and wasn't essentially frozen and deactivated except for its biochemistry it'd be thinking 'eat food' properly, but because its scripts aren't doing anything it's just frozen in that moment before its neurons fire and its current thought is replaced by whatever it's 'trying' to think. If you put food very close to the creature it can sometimes snap out of it, especially if you hit it.

The culprit is a mixture of bad handling of invalid actions and a creature navigation script that is intended to get them to navigate without forgetting what they're doing-it's either replacing only the verb of the thought (changing "push elevator" to "eat elevator" where it means to put "eat food" ) or only the noun (changing "eat food" to "eat elevator" when it's supposed to put "push elevator" ).

By clearing the noun lobe, Brainfarter forces the creatures to run scripts again and unfreezes their brains.

It's actually possible to get the symptoms of Eat Elevator Syndrome with objects that aren't elevators at all-if you take a creature that's affected by Chemical 130 and put it in a bare room and give it a full shot of 130, they can get stuck, trying to perform an action on something they hallucinated. Since there's nothing of that object class in reach, the engine doesn't give them any response at all. So their scripts get stuck in endless waiting.

IIRC, the chemical 130 decays and eventually they stop seeing the object, clearing their noun lobes and unparalyzing their brains.


 
Intyalle

Intyalle


 visit Intyalle's website: Nadia Eat Hand
  4/27/2017

Wow... hallucinating norns XD That sounds awesome, actually.

Also known as bab_5_freak from the old Gameware forums.
 
Aliena

Aliena



  4/27/2017

Intyalle wrote:
Wow... hallucinating norns XD That sounds awesome, actually.



Indeed.

Thanks to all of you. I'm trying brainfarter, and will come back to ask for more help if the problem persists.

 
Uzag

Uzag


 visit Uzag's website: DeviantArt
  4/27/2017

What genetics are you using? It may just be me, but the CFF seem to be a bit harder to do wolfing runs with.
 
Aliena

Aliena



  4/27/2017

I'm using the mall breeds, along with the expressive versions of the vanilla ones.
 
Aliena

Aliena



  4/27/2017

Hi again.

Neither version of brainfarter solved my trouble. What else should I try?

 
Malkin

Malkin

Manager


 visit Malkin's website: Malkin's page at CWiki
  4/27/2017

Can you check in the Crypt to see where your creatures normally die?

My TCR Norns
 
Aliena

Aliena



  4/28/2017

This is what happens: They astart reproducing at the 0:45 mark.

Around the hour mark, half the population has migrated to the jungle biome. A few are in the desert or the corridors.

at the 2-3 hours mark, they start dying if they are outside the norn terrarium, along with a few inside it.

A bit later, the second and third generation reproduce for a while, making the population grow again.

At around 4-5 hours of playing, they don't reproduce enough to be stable, and start dying for some reason, ending the wolfing run when 6 of them remain (I have the wolfing pop control set to that ammount, so I have something left to export for my deathmatches)

 
Elana

Elana



  4/28/2017

I used to have similar problems. When I started out the norn populations usually died out after reaching gen 8-11.
Nowadays that doesn't happen anymore..but my game is heavily modified.

There is of course the chance to cheat and injecting a few fresh norns shortly before the collapse would happen.
(Sometimes it really helps t freshen up the genepool)

Also Civic norns seem to be more likely to breed than the other standard races.

And of course to check if the world itself becomes deadly around that time you could do a test run with CFE spam norns(Not the first version of spam norns..that wouldn't test anything as they are born pregnant)
If spam norns can't survive in the world..it is too deadly and you need to change something
(Getting new food sources, new habitable rooms..or remove some poisons or bacteria)

 
Wingheart

Wingheart



  4/28/2017  1

Oh yeah-the grendel jungle I think has more bacteria in it? And bacteria often mutate to produce ATP Decoupler, which would on average happen at around the 5-6 hour mark.
 
Aliena

Aliena



  4/28/2017

Bacteria mutate? I wasn't aware of that. Poor Norns live in a horror movie spaceship.


On the other hand, anyone wanting to help me here be patient. I'm testing different run setups, and seeing if I can see what the problem is.

 
Aliena

Aliena



  5/4/2017

I think i have found the problem: Norns like exploring too much. After a few hours in a mostly vanilla world, they scatter because of too many interesting smells outside the norn terrarium.

How do I know this? I cut the ca links in the doors to the norn terrarium, and and runs started lasting a few more hours. Since there were no smells entering the terrarium, norns didn't feel like going on adventures as much.

I still can't pass from hour 10, so any thips into making a successful wolfing run are appreciated.

 
Intyalle

Intyalle


 visit Intyalle's website: Nadia Eat Hand
  5/4/2017

How many norns are you working with? I find quantity tend to help a bit. That said, I'm managing much longer runs than ever before, and I have no idea what I'm doing different XD

Also known as bab_5_freak from the old Gameware forums.
 
Malkin

Malkin

Manager


 visit Malkin's website: Malkin's page at CWiki
  5/4/2017

They've got to be able to find each other, but a high density can lead to fighting and disease spreading. Have you added in some anti-bacterial measures where they can activate them?

The Offline Warp Portals and Dummy Portals can help reduce fighting due to crowdedness and boredom.


My TCR Norns
 


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