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Rascii
Caves Dweller

Rascii
United States  
Administrator


 visit Rascii's website: Creatures Caves
  10/16/2014

It's a shame that this isn't a Swedish language community, and that all societies aren't as progressive as that of Sweden.

- Rascii
 
Papriko
Peppery One

Papriko
Germany  


  10/16/2014

Kinda like a less derogatory and more for people suitable version of "it" or what?

EDIT: actually more like "them" or "they", right?


Lets play plants! Photosynthesis... Photosynthesis... Photosynthesis...
 
Rascii
Caves Dweller

Rascii
United States  
Administrator


 visit Rascii's website: Creatures Caves
  10/16/2014

It's supposed to be the same as "he" or "she" but just without specifying a gender, so not derogatory in any manner. And it can only be used for people, so not the same as "it".

Personally I wish English had more gender neutral titles and pronouns because when contacting someone I don't know via email, it seems inappropriate to use "Mr." or "Ms." when you don't know their gender.


- Rascii
 
Pulppu

Pulppu
Finland  


  10/16/2014

Extra pronouns are great idea, though obviously it's still necessary to respect one's wishes on what they prefer to be called. Otherwise there's no point.
 
kezune
Air Guitarist

kezune
United States  

 visit kezune's website: Designer Genes
  10/16/2014  1

Papriko, "them" and "they" is the generally accepted way to address someone if you don't know how they identify (or even if you do, I use it for everyone because it's so comfortable and colloquial and it's become universal) but it's also considered incorrect and unprofessional. The proper use of the words is to identify a group of people but is gender neutral, unlike many other western languages which identify the genders of the people in the group. One of the reasons I love Japanese so much is because it has titles for everything. My husband and I each would be (surname)-San, for example.

Designer Genes || Updates Monday through Saturday
Personal Philosophy || "It never hurt anybody to have
thick skin, a strong back and a level head."

 
Rascii
Caves Dweller

Rascii
United States  
Administrator


 visit Rascii's website: Creatures Caves
  10/16/2014

Pulppu, the whole point of a gender neutral pronoun is that it applies to every human being. Therefore it doesn't matter which gendered pronoun someone identifies with, you could use the gender neutral pronoun and never mislabel them. Unless perhaps they don't identify as being human.

- Rascii
 
SillySina

SillySina
Finland  

 visit SillySina's website: Personal Blog
  10/16/2014

"Them" and "they" are increasingly being used as a neutral singular form as well as addressing a group of people. I *always* use those pronouns for people that I do not know the gender of. I have never been told down about it, nor have I ever had someone get mad at me for saying that, but *have* been scolded for calling a boy "she" or referencing a girl as "him."

English is a living language, which means it grows and evolves with its people and cultures. There are a lot of words that have completely different and/or opposite meanings than they originally had.

Whereas "it" is derogatory because that carries the implication that you are unsure of their humanity. Nobody wants to be seen as sub-human, and calling someone "it" very well can do that.

From all of the posts I have read of GreenReapers, in response to the whole pronoun issue, he seems extremely selfish. He has said varying version of this (From the link GirlySatan shared):

"If you base your pronoun usage on sex, and you cannot determine whether a person meets your definition for ‘he’ or ‘she’, I’d suggest avoiding both words. The subject’s own beliefs are immaterial. Either you believe a person is male, or female – or you do not know, in which case you should not communicate a belief.

If you base your pronoun usage on gender, either you believe a person has masculine or feminine characteristics, or you cannot decide. Again, the subject’s gender identity is immaterial; using it would be expressing their belief, not yours. (If they have similar views, and act in accordance with them, you’re likely to use the one they expect.)"

He is saying that people should not respect what others want to be called, but instead use whatever pronoun *you* think is fitting for *them.* So, he is saying that he has no respect for the "beliefs" of others, and that nobody should use the preferred pronoun of the subject, in favor of "sticking to your own belief."

Why put someone (back) into a position of power when they obviously have no respect for other peoples' preferences, culture, and beliefs? Especially regarding pronouns, where he could explicitly and/or inadvertently "out" someone, which could cause a heightened state of anxiety, stress, and danger for someone who is wanting to be "stealth" about their gender identity. This is a very serious issue still, in our world, though I wish it were not. :/

Beyond this awfulness, there is something else that really bothers me about this whole debacle.

It is disconcerting that, if allowed to become admin again, doesn't this set precedence for older, inactive ex-admins to be able to come back and gain their adminship without re-earning it? More active members of the community should be elected, based on activity and merit.

The way I see it, if I were absent from a community for an extended period and lost adminship, I should have to earn it back. No business would just give credentials back, nor would any (sane) community.

If someone wants admin (or any other position) back, they should have to strive for it again, not just expect it to be handed out.

As for this "witch hunt" - I see no evidence of this being such a thing. Nobody is being persecuted. Nobody is crying wolf. The problem lies in the blatant lack of respect GreenReaper shows through is wording, time and time again.

 
Trell
Wee Scrivener

Trell
Canada  
Moderator


 visit Trell's website: TrellyOllyOxenFree
  10/16/2014

cptmashek makes a good point; GreenReaper has been inactive for quite some time. It does make a bit more sense to put a more active user in a position like that, other issues aside. If you're gone that long, it's sensible to have to re-earn adminship.

Trell
"Holy crap in a casket!"

 

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