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Malkin

Malkin
Australia  
Manager


 visit Malkin's website: Malkin's page at CWiki
  9/28/2014  4

Crossposted from the cwiki blog.

We're back after a slight hiatus, and it looks like the wiki has grown to 3,658 pages and rising.

Okay, the hiatus may have been closer to nine years. But you all made over 200 new articles in the last month alone, and we want to start recognizing people's hard work again. Here's a sample of recent encyclopaedic developments:

* It was delightful to see so much new content during the fortnight-long housewarming edit spree and beyond.
* Agent smiths might appreciate the expanding c2e CAOS command reference.
* And they might find some inspiration in the Garden Box initiative and the new info about connecting agents.
* Chemical fans might like to learn about cures and toxins.
* The Albian Warp project is a must-read for any transporter chiefs who miss beaming their creatures across spacetime. (I hear they even accounted for the dark energy equations. Wait, nevermind, that only matters to Alyx and Gordon.)
* Are there ways for contributors to collaborate with the organizers of the upcoming CCSF?
* For zombies and other brain-seekers, there are new descriptions of how pre-c2e norns learn how to interpret their surroundings and make decisions. (Why only pre-c2e brains? Well, we're working on C3, DS and CV brains, but we could use your help understanding them.)

If you like hovering your cursor over things, you might have noticed all the HTTPS links above. That's because we're (maybe excessively) happy to have joined a growing percentage of sites that use encryption by default. Webmasters, even if you don't serve TLS, you can participate by updating your wiki links to point to '''https://creatures.wiki/Example_page_name'''. Note that the "a.com/wiki" part has also gone away.


My TCR Norns
 
GreenReaper

GreenReaper
United States  

 visit GreenReaper's website: GreenReaper Studios
  10/8/2014

First off, let me say that I'm very glad to see development on the Creatures Wiki. It's an important resource for the entire community.
That's why I'm concerned by the recent actions of creatures.wiki's host.

Aftran granted administrative rights on creatures.wiki to some, but not all existing admins, and has pressured them to deny me the same rights.

For those unaware, I spent over half a year working full-time on the Creatures Wiki, and I have been its largest contributor. (cf. Aftran's edits.)

Aftran has since attempted to permanently exclude me from Creatures Chat (which they currently host, and which I believe is now moving as a result). Their goal appears to be to exclude me from anything they are involved with, on the basis of personal views unrelated to Creatures.

Part of what we fought for on Wikia is the right to self-determination - for our wiki to be controlled by the community of its editors, and not by those who happen to be hosting it. I care about the Creatures Community, and I won't stand by as large chunks of it are taken over by such a host.

I remain hopeful that this issue can be resolved amicably. If not, I'll gladly rehost the Creatures Wiki on WikiFur's server, providing editors with regular updates, stats, backups, and other features added over the past six years. Should that come to pass, I hope that you will join me there.


GreenReaper - GreenReaper Studios
Former Benevolent Dictator of the Creatures Wiki
Founder and Custodian of WikiFur
Editor-in-chief of Flayrah
Maintainer of the Yerf Historical Archive

 
Papriko
Peppery One

Papriko
Germany  


  10/8/2014  3

I have read the WikiFur article about you and I have to say that I find some of your opinions and views.... questionable. And even if you wrote quite a lot of articles, I would not feel comfy with you hosting it either. If at all, move it to a third, neutral host.

Lets play plants! Photosynthesis... Photosynthesis... Photosynthesis...
 
GreenReaper

GreenReaper
United States  

 visit GreenReaper's website: GreenReaper Studios
  10/8/2014

I'm sorry that you feel that way. There are people who I disagree with on a personal basis, but I have never used such disagreements to justify restricting them from editing or conversing in areas I have control over. Likewise, WikiFur's policies are compromises between the personal views of many editors, including myself.

The job of a host is to serve the community, which often includes working with people you don't agree with, and coming to compromises which you can all live with. Excluding members of the community from the process because you find their views objectionable is not the way to go about it.

I still believe I am the best host, given my technical ability and my history of working with wiki communities and Creatures in particular for an extended period of time. However, I'd be glad to support a third party who would provide hosting in accordance with the wishes of its contributors. Indeed, that is why I was initially glad to hear about this move - because I thought that was what had happened.


GreenReaper - GreenReaper Studios
Former Benevolent Dictator of the Creatures Wiki
Founder and Custodian of WikiFur
Editor-in-chief of Flayrah
Maintainer of the Yerf Historical Archive

 
Papriko
Peppery One

Papriko
Germany  


  10/8/2014  3

It is not only your views self, you also seem to have a... strange way how you sometimes order the priority of your vs other opinions, views, etc. You say that you respect everyone's opinion and that you stay fair and what not, but as I already said: I have read that WikiFur article. Putting you in charge would be just too dangerous.

So in short: no. IMO creatures wiki rather should be moved back to wikia than to your hands.


Lets play plants! Photosynthesis... Photosynthesis... Photosynthesis...
 
Malkin

Malkin
Australia  
Manager


 visit Malkin's website: Malkin's page at CWiki
  10/8/2014

Creatures Caves isn't an appropriate place for this discussion. I'm locking this topic for now - we can continue if need be on the Creatures Wikia.

My TCR Norns
 
Rascii
Caves Dweller

Rascii
United States  
Administrator


 visit Rascii's website: Creatures Caves
  10/10/2014

I've decided to unlock this thread because it seems that this is something which the community needs to discuss, and the "discussion" on the Wiki doesn't seem open to everyone.

Please keep any replies in this thread clear, succinct and appropriate. There should be no personal attacks, simply genuine discussion.

If anyone has issues with anything, please send me a PM.


- Rascii
 
Nutter
Senior Wrangler

Nutter
United Kingdom  


  10/10/2014

Has anyone mentioned this thread to Aftran? It would be interesting to get his input on this.

I was very pleased when the hosting of the wiki was moved off Wikia, given their behaviour; but not happy if the current host then starts trying to ringfence a collaborative project. It would be nice to know the reasons for this, if indeed this is what's happening.

 
SpaceShipRat

SpaceShipRat
Italy  


  10/10/2014  1

Let me fist say, I REALLY dislike the idea of how this was being dealt with as GreenReaper reports it, just removing someone from the team without previous discussion. I hope something like that does not happen again, because it smells like abuse of power.

On GreenReaper's assertion that "Ultimately, your wish to feel safe does not trump my wish to feel honest. That IS entirely unacceptable. I would not have a problem with him if he takes that back and promises to act as though people's lives were more important than his beliefs.

On the subject of compromise, I believe a compromise can be found, but doing the math: One person's opinion, motivated by personal beliefs and the annoyance of having to edit articles over and over, vs the vast majority opinion, motivated by empathy and the "annoyance" of watching LGBT teens kill themselves. The compromise should not be "50/50" but mirror this very skewed ratio.

Certainly there should be a firm policy established for these cases, not just a case of editors changing pronouns under each-other's nose. As a compromise, there could be a policy that if someone's just changed sex twice, their article gets the pronouns removed, or changed to "they" (which is what we use as placeholder when we're unsure of someone's gender on the internet, I don't think anyone can take offense at that).

Ultimately I don't think GR's views should get him ostracised or anything, as long as he starts keeping them out of people's face, or his work on the wiki.

 
Papriko
Peppery One

Papriko
Germany  


  10/10/2014  2

How long has he been away now? Years? And he expects to be put straight into a seriously powerful postion, just because he once held it a long time ago. Am I the only one who finds this kind of fishy?

Lets play plants! Photosynthesis... Photosynthesis... Photosynthesis...
 
SpaceShipRat

SpaceShipRat
Italy  


  10/10/2014  1

Now let me address GR directly.

So you say you feel dishonest using certain pronouns, because you think in "truth" they should refer to physical sex. But this is an issue of semantics, and the definition of the meaning of a word is no solid, determinate fact. Semantics is a matter of social convention, and meanings slowly change and shift.

This means that society, as a whole, decides on the meaning of words. Why? Because the purpose of words is to convey a message, to communicate.
Let me hazard a programming simile: if the compiler and the interpreter don't assign the same meaning to a command, the message gets garbled.

So, as I've seen from one of the linked twitter convos, you say that someone's sex or even name should be determined by how society perceives them, not their singular opinion.
I'd turn that around and ask, what if not the definition of words should be determined by society and not your personal opinion? Using a pronoun of your choice, not the one accepted by the community, would cause misunderstanding, because they assign a different, widely accepted meaning to the word.

It is your right to assign whatever meanings inside your head, but you cannot use them to communicate. Let's go back to my stupid analogy: you may believe you have created a more effective and sensible programming language by tweaking a few things, but when you send it to other people's machines, you'll just crash them.

PS. if it really makes you feel off to use certain pronouns, think of yourself as a Conscious Objector and keep away from the articles that make you feel bad!

 
razander
Manic Scribbler

razander
United States  


  10/10/2014

As for what's happening, Malkin linked a thread on the old wiki discussing the controversy, the Wikifur article Papriko is talking about is this one, and this is a detailed blog post on the matter. I can't say any more... because it's only today that I learned any of this was happening! Good ol' Fridays, am I right?

I think a lot of this stems from a misunderstanding of the terms "objective" and "subjective". Fluidity is a matter aside from subjectivity. Religious beliefs are fluid and unstable, but it is an objective fact that Gregor Mendel was a Catholic. If he became an adherent of Shin Buddhism then continuing to call him a Catholic would be to lie. Yes, even though religion is a social construct! Objective material conditions are not necessarily stable, one only has to look at the weather to see this is true. Yes, it is a hassle to weekly change the weather forecast, but meteorologists are obligated to report the truth, regardless of how much trouble it causes them. And on the subject of sex being relatively concrete and easily distinguished, I want to pose the question: if we derive pronouns solely from one's sex, what pronoun should we use to refer to someone with XY gonadal dysgenesis?

I am opposed to any demotion or removal based solely on a person's beliefs. But, there is a difference between removing someone because they believe they are a toaster, and removing someone because they insist on releasing information that endangers someone's physical and emotional safety. I suppose, if one lived in Lahore during the 1947 partitioning of India and Pakistan, that it would be dishonest to tell everyone that your Hindu friend is Muslim, but it's either lie or watch your friend and his family be lynched. Any belief that insists itself above human life has no value to me, whether it's a commitment to "objectivity" (a term that, along with "materialism", has been perverted to justify reactionary policies and obscure any real understanding of history, the world, and humanity) or sectarianism. Anyone who insists on referring to a woman as a man is obligated to make a conscious effort in creating a society that does not lynch people for any reason.

I think it's important to note that whether GreenReaper remains part of the wiki staff or not, he is still free to voice his opinions, and will still be able to release information that endangers the personal safety of others. The community should think long and hard about this. Whatever decision is made about the wiki will not fix problems overnight.

 
Nutter
Senior Wrangler

Nutter
United Kingdom  


  10/10/2014

I'm not sure where the idea of Green Reaper releasing information to harm others is coming from. From what I've seen so far, he's not refused to use gender-neutral language. Even if he found the subjectively-incorrect wording of a page objectionable, I've seen nothing to suggest he would actively change it to harm someone else. To suggest that he would is quite an accusation, and I've seen nothing to back it up as a legitimate fear. What I have seen today is evidence of a dogpile on Twitter, well known for its mob mentality, and a lot of links - like razander's, above - where people denouce GR's behaviour whilst doing the same thing themselves to other groups. (It's interesting to note, as a perimenopausal female, just how misogynistic and ageist the pro-trans lobby can be.)

This all sounds like an issue of politics: new admins want an old admin out, despite the fact he's put a goodly chunk of his own time and effort in. I suspect transphobia is a convenient excuse, and if it wasn't that, it would be something else. If the current wiki hosts really find it acceptable to shun someone from the community for political reasons, then are we going to have this kind of witch hunt any time any contributor does something objectionable? Or only when the current hosts find it objectionable? Or only when they find the contributor objectionable?

How is this better than what we had with Wikia?

Wikis are a collaborative effort aimed at information gathering and sharing; they should be the very antithesis of the nastier parts of human group psychology, where politics is used to define who's "in" and who's "out". And if you're claiming it's necessary to kick someone out for "safety" then you'll need to actually assess the real risk to members of this community.

 
C-Rex
Lollipop Lord

C-Rex
United Kingdom  

 visit C-Rex's website: The Norn Nebula
  10/10/2014  1

A LGBT person myself, I am fine with him having this view as long as he is not posting blatant material related to it, or attacking other users, making them feel uncomfortable, or discriminating against them, which is completely unacceptable.

The question of whether Greenreaper becomes an admin on the new Creatures Wiki takes into other factors as well. He has contributed quite a fair bit to the Creatures community and has proven he is up to the task as far as I have seen.


⋆ The Norn Nebula ⋆
My Creatures blog


 
Papriko
Peppery One

Papriko
Germany  


  10/11/2014

Soooo... Basically you say "give him all the powers he wants, making him even less stoppable" because he could do damage anyways? Now that is one weak argumentation.

Even if he could do damage anyways, NOT making him admin would keep more control over this whole subject.
To use a classic metaphor: giving GreenReaper admin because he could cause damage even without it, would be like granting the genie your 3rd wish that he can have his lamp, because "somehow he's gotta get it anyways".


Lets play plants! Photosynthesis... Photosynthesis... Photosynthesis...
 
C-Rex
Lollipop Lord

C-Rex
United Kingdom  

 visit C-Rex's website: The Norn Nebula
  10/11/2014

I'm sorry, I didn't mean it that way. I was honestly trying to look at it in a more rational light, so rather than saying he shouldn't be an admin because of his views, he should still be allowed to be an admin, but keep those views to himself AKA not turn into some crazed preacher.

To be fair, I am not a trans person, so I can't really comment on the situation. I'm sorry if I upset anyone with what I said. It would be easier to just stop him becoming an admin, but then things don't usually work like that.


⋆ The Norn Nebula ⋆
My Creatures blog


 
Papriko
Peppery One

Papriko
Germany  


  10/11/2014

I say this: allow him edts n stuff, but do NOT make him an admin right away. As I said: I still find it darn weird that someone who was away for ages just comes back and demands admin rights RIGHT AWAY. Maybe he was a decent member in the past, but people change. He is a peop/person, so he does change as well. This might mean good, but it eventually means bad as well. He was not active in the community for years, so giving him a crap ton of rights (like admin status does) would be basically the same as making a stranger admin. He might have done a lot of articles in the past but it means nothing now. Strictly seen, he is just another random guy demanding more random stuff.

Lets play plants! Photosynthesis... Photosynthesis... Photosynthesis...
 
C-Rex
Lollipop Lord

C-Rex
United Kingdom  

 visit C-Rex's website: The Norn Nebula
  10/11/2014

I was going to bring up the lack of activity too, Papriko, and I agree completely, but was worried about bringing it up in case I got my head bitten off. :P

⋆ The Norn Nebula ⋆
My Creatures blog


 
Rupa

Rupa
United States  


  10/11/2014

I would not feel comfortable knowing someone who does not respect the rights and safety of trans people is an admin on the wiki.
 
GirlySatan
Devil COBbler

GirlySatan
United States  

 visit GirlySatan's website: GirlySatan's Adventures
  10/11/2014

Although I understand he has contributed a lot, I don't think it would be a good idea to allow him to be admin. There is the long hiatus in question, which most people lose admin priv if they are gone for an unknown amount of time in most places. I also don't feel comfortable when he doesn't seem to respect trans peoples preferred pronouns. He may respect them as people, but using incorrect pronouns not only interferes with safety, but it also interferes with a persons transition when they are pre-op. Someone who does not respect these things is not someone I expect to be able to be a proper admin. Therefore I do not feel comfortable knowing he would be an admin on the wiki.

Devilishly Yours,
GirlySatan [devil]

 
Sgeo

Sgeo



  10/12/2014

Just so everyone knows, only Wikia, not us, can be the one to demote (or not demote) GreenReaper on the old wiki. And Wikia's policy is to only count opinions posted on their site. So if you want your opinion to count on the old wiki, either to keep GreenReaper instated, or to demote him, you'll have to make a post there.

And Rascii, the wiki most definitely should be open to all (however, you might need to make a Wikia account); if it's not then something is quite wrong and must be fixed.

Apologies for the inconveniences.


Neurogengineer and founder of the Creatures Wiki.
 
C-Rex
Lollipop Lord

C-Rex
United Kingdom  

 visit C-Rex's website: The Norn Nebula
  10/12/2014

I have just recently learned that GreenReaper has actually gone and harassed trans people in the past, whereas I originally thought it was just a personal opinion he had stated, and that was that. That isn't the sort of person I'd want running a wiki, or any website, at all. [nangry]

⋆ The Norn Nebula ⋆
My Creatures blog


 
razander
Manic Scribbler

razander
United States  


  10/12/2014  1

From my understanding, much of this could've been avoided if the Creatures Wiki had a policy regarding biographical information. I've proposed one for the new wiki. This policy would apply to all members, administrator or not. This is an issue that concerns and should involve the whole Creatures community. Please look at the proposed policy and discuss it at the bottom of the text.
 
Nutter
Senior Wrangler

Nutter
United Kingdom  


  10/12/2014

Doesn't go far enough, razander. There should be no assumption that photographic likeness is in the public domain - that's likely to be far more dangerous to someone than misusing a pronoun.

What's the definition of consensus for the wiki?

 
razander
Manic Scribbler

razander
United States  


  10/12/2014

I've added a reference to the Creature's Wiki's image use policy... which badly needs to be updated (it hasn't been touched in nine years!).

It looks like the wiki doesn't have a definition for "consensus". Yet another policy that needs to be added...

 
Pulppu

Pulppu



  10/14/2014

Late to the party as always, but I just wanted to give my two cents for what's it worth... I am also not in favor of having GR in any kind of administrative position, or, to be more frank, in the community itself, for reasons others have stated.

-Pulppu, who does not feel easy talking against anyone.

 
Laura
Tea Queen

Laura
United Kingdom  
Administrator


 visit Laura's website: CC Chat
  10/14/2014

Hello, Pulppu! We've missed you. :)
 
GreenReaper

GreenReaper
United States  

 visit GreenReaper's website: GreenReaper Studios
  10/14/2014

And there you see what I am fighting for. It is not merely about whether I maintain rights on a community site - even one which I helped to create. It is about whether I have the right to be a member of this community at all. A community I have been a member of for half my life, to which I dedicated my university project, and to which I have never intended any harm.

I deny the claim that I have harassed trans people. On the contrary, a group of activists are harassing me. They brought this debate to the communities I care about, stirring up fear, and rejecting compromise.

Past contributors have said that they don't want to get involved - either because they don't have a strong opinion, believe they must remain impartial, or don't want to get hassled themselves. These are all perfectly understandable reasons, but the end result may be that I am bullied out of a community I love for something which is nothing to do with Creatures.

Regardless of how you feel about my beliefs, if you don't think they're a good enough reason to exclude myself or others who feel the same way from the community, you need to speak up, now - before it is too late.


GreenReaper - GreenReaper Studios
Former Benevolent Dictator of the Creatures Wiki
Founder and Custodian of WikiFur
Editor-in-chief of Flayrah
Maintainer of the Yerf Historical Archive

 
Trell
Wee Scrivener

Trell
Canada  

 visit Trell's website: TrellyOllyOxenFree
  10/14/2014

I'd hate to think that anyone feels unwelcome within the Creatures Community, and I don't think anyone is trying to bully you out of the community, GreenReaper. Rather, I believe they're only expressing their opinions and discomfort about you being in charge of the wiki, and everyone has a right to their opinion.

Trell
"Holy crap in a casket!"

 
Allekha

Allekha
United States  


  10/14/2014  1

As a transgender person (I'm genderqueer), putting GreenReaper in a position of power in the wiki would make me really, really uncomfortable.

Using the wrong pronouns for a person is harmful. Safety issues aside, being addressed by the wrong pronoun upsets me and sinks my mood. On a bad day it will even cause me to be so uncomfortable I withdraw from the conversation completely.

Trans issues may have nothing to do with Creatures, but this isn't really about trans issues. This is about basic respect toward other people in the community, and from what I've read it sure doesn't seem like GreenReaper is capable of that. I'm not trying to say that he should be run out of the CC or anything, but making him a wiki admin would implicitly say that his transphobic views are okay. And I don't want to be part of a community where they are.

 
Nutter
Senior Wrangler

Nutter
United Kingdom  


  10/14/2014  2

What communism was in the McCarthy era, transphobia appears to have become for the 21st century.

I've just waded through the discussion on wikia. Tried to raise Aftran in chat, but to no avail. We've seen sgeo in here briefly, but I'd like a reply to my previous questions, which were not rhetorical:

Are we going to have this kind of witch hunt any time any contributor does something objectionable?
Or only when the current hosts/admins find it objectionable?
Or only when they find the contributor objectionable?

Because, as it stands, the way this has been handled so far looks rather unpleasant and underhand, and doesn't give me much desire to use either the wiki - old or new - or the chat.

 
Rascii
Caves Dweller

Rascii
United States  
Administrator


 visit Rascii's website: Creatures Caves
  10/14/2014  3

For the record, I have known GR for well over ten years (since JRChat, JRNet, etc.) and I have never once witnessed him harassing anyone or acting in any way that would make me or anyone else uncomfortable.

From what I can tell, a handful of people have twisted words and exaggerated quotes from this person and it has turned into, as Nutter put it, a witch hunt.

People who don't even know GR seem to be joining in and saying that they disagree with his alleged beliefs/actions, based solely on rumors from other people. I'm not saying that GR should or should not have administrator priviledges on the Wiki, because I'm not involved in the Wiki, but as far as I'm concerned he is still a welcome, respected member of this community and people who know him as such should treat him as such, and those who don't know him should get to know him before passing judgement.

I would have zero qualms with GR being a member of the moderation team of this website, based on my personal interactions with him.

And also for the record, I believe in equlity for everyone, especially for the LGBT community, and I also believe that GR is a good person. These do not have to be mutually exclusive beliefs.


- Rascii
 
razander
Manic Scribbler

razander
United States  


  10/15/2014  1

I don't think it's correct to compare what's happening here to McCarthyism. The US House of Representatives has not created a House Committee on Transphobic Activities, no law has deemed the advocacy of transphobia seditious and thus criminalised it, and I can't recall any state that has executed people for alleged transphobic espionage.

A lot of people have voiced their opinions on both the thread on the old wiki and this thread, but I think it's also important to set a policy in place on the new wiki on how biographical content should be handled. Issues of both identity and safety on the wiki would eventually have been raised because the wiki doesn't have policies or guidelines dealing with them; there still isn't a privacy policy! Demoting, or even driving out GreenReaper, or anyone else, isn't going to stop these issues from popping up again and making members feel or even be excluded or unsafe.

 
Nutter
Senior Wrangler

Nutter
United Kingdom  


  10/15/2014  1

razander, would you care to read my comment again? A is to B as X is to Y. Communism was used under McCarthy as a way of persecuting people in 50s America; in most cases the threat of their politics were exaggerated, and punishment was meted out with scant regard for truthfulness of accusation. An accusation of communism was, in short, a convenient way to terrorise people. An accusation of transphobia often appears to be used by the youth of today for exactly the same purpose. Sadly it is not, as Allekha believes, a matter of basic decency, because the people so insistent about addressing transphobia are often remarkably quiet about other social problems, like sexism, racism, ageism, homophobia and ableism (mental and physical).

This isn't even about the wiki, or about prejudice per se: it's about who gets to police group membership, and what rules they use. This is tribalism, not community. Communities can be diverse; tribes cannot. I have no wish to be part of a tribe.

People have made clear they want to ostracise GR, not because he is an actual danger to transpeople by his work in the wiki, but because he might, in some other area of his life, refer to a transperson as "they". They claim ostracism is justified in the cause of safety.

If you don't find this disingenuous, consider the following. Given the demographic of the community, it's a safe bet that a fair number of people in the community drive, and a good percentage of those break the speed limit on a regular basis and think it's no big deal.

Hit someone at 30mph, they'll probably survive; hit someone at 40mph, they probably won't. The attitude that 10mph over the speed limit is no big deal is far, far more likely to kill someone than misgendering them on a forum.

Are we going to use safety as an argument to ostracise people from the community for the attitude that speeding is OK? If so, what other attitudes are unacceptable? If not, why is GR's case different?

Still waiting for answers to my previous questions, btw.

 
GirlySatan
Devil COBbler

GirlySatan
United States  

 visit GirlySatan's website: GirlySatan's Adventures
  10/16/2014  3

I do believe it is an issue of common decency. I have never in my life seen how someone accusing another person of transphobia ends up terrorizing their life, because accusations of transphobia are often ignored. There are a lot of disrespectful attitudes towards LGBTQ people especially towards trans people. Trans awareness is still many years behind the progress that gays and lesbians have made, which is also still struggling. Even LGBQ people can be transphobic, which is pretty bad considering how all these groups should be able to relate.

And those other topics you bring up, I am not quiet about them. I am female who has been subject to misogyny, a mexican living in a US state where people are not the friendliest to other races, a younger person often dealing with ageism in combination with my disability, and pansexual. I have a brother that is mentally disabled and have had to defend him from a lot of people who treated him poorly because of who he is. All these things are very important to me, and I have experienced prejudice in these many forms throughout my life, against myself or against people I am close to.

I feel that many people have spoken out, and the community has really decided they did not want him to be admin on the wiki. I think its important to go over what the main issue was for a lot of our friends here. It's not just about him possibly using the gender neutral pronoun. It is about him using a pronoun that someone specifically asked him not to use. It's also about him not ever apologizing, but continuing to defend that he is being true to himself, while choosing not to care about another persons safety. He plainly said these things and there is plenty of evidence of this. It is not a witch hunt by any means when he said offensive things that upset many of his other community members and never apologized. It isn't speculation, its something that actually happened, has never been apologized for to show remorse about making his community members feel unsafe. In general, his feelings about pronouns are not uncommon and is part of a huge disparity between trans folk and cis. A lot of people still don't understand why its so important to use pronouns that our trans friends prefer.

That being said, I think it would be good for everyone to be held accountable for a clear pattern of disrespect to other groups. It can be LGBTQ, any race group, any age group, any sex, any ability. We have kicked out people from chat before for being sexist, homophobic, racist, ableist, and other indecencies. I think people should be held accountable for patterns of behavior that lean towards hatefulness or disrespect to a certain group of people. We have young people here that need a loving nurturing place where they shouldn't feel afraid to reveal what they relate to. It also would be good for any age group. I like being here because I don't feel afraid to reveal what I am. After viewing GRs previous actions I came to the conclusion that he is not good for admin because he has shown patterns of disrespect to a minority and I don't believe someone like that should have that position.


Devilishly Yours,
GirlySatan [devil]

 
C-Rex
Lollipop Lord

C-Rex
United Kingdom  

 visit C-Rex's website: The Norn Nebula
  10/16/2014  3

Another thing is, if GreenReaper was made an admin, would there be any point? The truth is, he's hardly currently the most active user in the Creatures Community, and it wasn't until this whole thing came up that he has been in the spotlight. I think, at the end of the day, his role should be given to somebody willing to put a little more effort in.

⋆ The Norn Nebula ⋆
My Creatures blog


 

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