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Community-Made Creatures 4   
Layla

Layla
United States  


  9/9/2017  4

Hey guys! This is the first time I've proposed a seriously major project idea, so you'll have to bear with me...

After the release of Creatures Alchemist, a lot of community members were left... Disappointed, to say the least. However, we as a community have embarked on so many great projects together, and have managed to keep the series alive and fresh after all these years!

So, on the forum thread for the correspondence with Spil Games, some of us tossed around the idea of making a new Creatures game within the Docking Station engine - All new world, all new breeds, etcetera... I believe one of the names Doringo suggested was "Creatures Homebrew Cook-Off", which I quite liked. :D

I feel like a project like this deserves a thread of its own, even if it doesn't come to fruition. Though, I have got some ideas.

You can see where I got a little lazy making this, but I got in all the major points. It'd be best to start out with an equivalent to the Comms room in DS, and KittyTikara said she liked having all her tools in one place... So, I thought it'd be a good idea to have the egg layer, agent injector, and splicer all in the same room. Controls for each would appear on the display screen and the product of each would come out of the tube. If someone would like to take a crack at a more professional-looking version of this, go right on ahead! I believe the image file is the same size as the current DS Comms Room. Let me know what you guys think - Is this a viable project?

I serve none but to rock.

 
GimmeCat

GimmeCat
United Kingdom  


  9/10/2017

Would love to be involved, but C3/DS isn't my thing. :(
 
Uzag

Uzag
Sweden  

 visit Uzag's website: DeviantArt
  9/10/2017

Seeing something like this would be amazing! It's a quite ambitious project but maybe... [nhearts]

I can do graphics, especially backgrounds, but I sadly cannot help out much -at this point- as I'm already involved in a large project elsewhere... [nskull] (Eventually I'll be free but it can take a while! Not sure if my style is favored however, I work in 2D which I alter into looking 3D-ish)


The following part may sound a bit skeptic but it's not my intention! It's meant as a bit of... steering.
See, I'm slightly curious what the point of this creation is. Adding breeds and metarooms is always fun but does it need to be stand-alone?

I figure the main reason to make something like this is if there's some major coding alterations you want to do. And if this is the case, we wouldn't necessarily have to have new graphics as we could use the ones of DS (I... think we're allowed to do that..?). Or better yet, tweak the coding in such manner that instead of changing, we could add more to it = all existent downloads would remain compatible, just that they're not utilizing any of the new coding.

However, if your intent is to simply expand DS with more content... Why not make it work like DS docking with C3? Except it would be docking with this C4 project. It would spare us a lot of time not having to alter the inference like, say, C1-2-DS did.
(If it's the later, you may want to check up on the leader, Pilla, of our large project so the things doesn't end up map-clashing [nwink] )

 
Doringo
Lodestar

Doringo
United Kingdom  

 visit Doringo's website: Doringo's Dominion
  9/10/2017

Uzag wrote:

(If it's the later, you may want to check up on the leader, Pilla, of our large project so the things doesn't end up map-clashing [nwink] )



Map clashes on expanded maps are a once in a blue moon occurrence. I doubt such caution would be needed.


"The Shapers are the oldest, most respected, most secretive and most powerful of the magical sects. The Shapers have the power to magically create life."
 
Uzag

Uzag
Sweden  

 visit Uzag's website: DeviantArt
  9/10/2017  1

Ah, that's nice. I'm not much of a code-wrangler. All I know is that the one room I made managed to clash with Norngarden 2, making me suspicious towards mapping ever since [nlaugh]
 
Doringo
Lodestar

Doringo
United Kingdom  

 visit Doringo's website: Doringo's Dominion
  9/10/2017

Layla wrote:
Let me know what you guys think - Is this a viable project?



I'm not sure exactly what skills I'd be willing to offer at the moment, but for starters if you ever need a 3D icon, like some of the icons from the creatures games such as the creator icon, replicator, recycler, et cetera, I can help you out with those. If the project shows more promise, I'd consider lending some of my more powerful skills.

I also think it's a good idea that you take an approach similar to Edynn for the metarooms, and make hasty backgrounds just so you can get your rooms designed first. You can hot-swap them (and possibly re-map) later on.

As for the image file, I think the concept splicer pods are too big when you compare them to even an adult jungle grendel, unless we're handling Creatures Village sized norns here.


"The Shapers are the oldest, most respected, most secretive and most powerful of the magical sects. The Shapers have the power to magically create life."
 
Pilla

Pilla
Belgium  

 visit Pilla's website: Pilla's DS Agents
  9/10/2017  1

I think it would be nice to have a C2-styled background for the 'main map', with the agent injector in a separate room (for backwards compatibility). Maybe bigger than C2. Would be nice. :)

C3DS allows for 'locking' on the creatures, so you could technically do something where you'd need to activate a powerup to allow the camera to roam freely.

Also, I second the 'hasty background' approach, that way you can define key areas and get community input on details for the map.

Also, I'm willing to donate towards an artist who would be willing do the C2-esque world background. I'm picky though. XD

 
C-Rex
Norn King

C-Rex
United Kingdom  

 visit C-Rex's website: The Norn Nebula
  9/10/2017

Slightly off-topic, but I'd love to see Creatures 2 re-created in the Creatures Evolution Engine. Sadly, I think C2toDS is pretty much dead and it was the closest thing we ever got to a remake of C2. :(

My Portfolio

Check out my Creatures Stream

 
KittyTikara
Scary Dunsparce

KittyTikara
United States  
Moderator


 visit KittyTikara's website: The Mobula Ray
  9/10/2017

This ended up longer then I thought it would be. Anyway, I don't know how viable the project is, but I'm willing to give it a shot. I can't do art but I'm decent with Caos. I'm willing to code things like toys, gadgets, and simple plants and animals. Depending on what I'm doing at the time and how well the project goes, I might be willing to try more complex things as well. That tool room is something I want to code anyway, even if it only ends up as a regular metaroom for C3/DS.

Uzag raised a good point, what is the goal for this project: a stand alone game like Edynn or a major addon to DS like C1toDS or C2toDS? For a stand alone game, it's very possible to do this and have it dock with DS or C3/DS. It would require editing the interface and world switcher though. I checked the world switcher and I think it specifically looks for Creatures 3 when docking worlds? I could be wrong though. I only skimmed the world switcher code and it's very confusing. For an addon, we could either change the world switcher like C1toDS or... Never mind, something C2toDS doesn't exactly work if we're replacing DS.

We could offer it as a downloadable world though. As long as the user has the proper images, sounds, and other files, they can actually download a world, put it in their worlds folder, and load it up like a regular world. I'd assume any changes made to the bootstrap get saved into the world itself. So any changed we made to the bootstrap would already be in the world. It does make docking the project to C3/DS somewhat impractical. We would either have to offer more worlds for download, or have separate agents that inject C3 and DS and dock it that way. For obvious piratey reasons, people would still have to have them installed for the sprites.

Also I like the idea of a C2-styled background for the main map and the agent injector/egg layer thing in a separate room. You could do that for other areas of the map as well, like green houses or temples. And I suppose I'll third the 'hasty background' approach. It sounds like the best way to start the metaroom.


The Mobula Ray - My Creatures blog
 
Layla

Layla
United States  


  9/10/2017

I think docked or undocked could work either way. And I also like the idea of making it a downloadable world! But I feel like it'd be better if we could modify the WorldSwitcher like C1 to DS did, mostly because I like setting up worlds a lot more than I like playing them sometimes, and it'd be nice to be able to start over with the push of a button rather than having to redownload a world file. Although I'm glad that minimalistic temporary maps aren't a problem!

An idea that might be interesting if we do intend to dock to C3/DS would be to alter the functionality of the warp portals? Perhaps create in a C2-style the worlds that the Lone Shee visited in the DS story. Just a thought, not sure how practical that would be.

On a related note, I started making a norn breed several months ago, and then forgot about the project. I picked it up again yesterday and am now almost done with it. Perhaps I should wait until we know for sure if a project like this could take off? And then bundle the breed in with the world?


I serve none but to rock.
 
Doringo
Lodestar

Doringo
United Kingdom  

 visit Doringo's website: Doringo's Dominion
  9/10/2017

I personally feel like it should be a thing on its own rather than being exclusive to some docked expansion, since it would make it more like "DS - The C4 expansion" rather than "C4". It might be possible to make it dock through a modification of the DS worldswitcher that makes it load the bootstrap from wherever you have the game installed, though the focus should be in making it something that can run as a standalone.

"The Shapers are the oldest, most respected, most secretive and most powerful of the magical sects. The Shapers have the power to magically create life."
 
KittyTikara
Scary Dunsparce

KittyTikara
United States  
Moderator


 visit KittyTikara's website: The Mobula Ray
  9/10/2017

I agree, a downloadable world isn't a good idea for the project. I just felt the need to mention it somewhere. I've know it was possible for a while now and never bothered to write the knowledge down anywhere. (Might have to write a blog post about it later.)

I like the idea of warp portals linking the areas the Lone Shee visited and it's possible to do something like that. Just make the warp portals doors and have them connect to the areas. It's rather ambitious to do that on top of the C4 world though.

I vote for saving the breed for the project. If all goes well, we will need a breed for it.

I can't decide if making it an addon like C1toDS or a stand alone game would be better. An addon would be easier to organize and I think it has a better chance of getting finished then a stand alone game. It doesn't really go with the point of the project though. A standalone game would make it feel like C4 more. If we go the standalone route, I will dock it with C3 and DS at some point. Even if it's just something like those standalone C3 metarooms.


The Mobula Ray - My Creatures blog
 
Layla

Layla
United States  


  9/10/2017  1

Here's a few quick doodles as rough concept ideas for some metarooms. We'd need some kind of hub, I think, like the corridor from the C3 Ark - A portal behind each door, maybe?

I serve none but to rock.

 
GimmeCat

GimmeCat
United Kingdom  


  9/10/2017  1

I kinda like the idea of waiting for Geat_Masta to finish Kreatures, and then making a C4 mod on his engine. That would be kinda meta, if you think about it. :D
 
Pilla

Pilla
Belgium  

 visit Pilla's website: Pilla's DS Agents
  9/11/2017

Love the sketches, Layla, keep 'em coming!
I think it would be nice if the metarooms would be slightly bigger, but this kinda size could just work too, actually. It'd be easier to finish every metaroom that way.

What is written under the lower sketch? Can't read it XD

Just some brainstorm ideas:

- maybe a "cloud" metaroom? High up in the sky, composed from clouds
- a "candy" metaroom, with all decorations made from candy?
- a waterfall somewhere maybe? :D
- A small island surrounded with water?

I'm not sure about waiting for the Kreatures engine. If we're all clear right from the start that we give permission to convert this to the kreatures engine once it's been released, then we shouldn't run into issues right? Then we can still convert this and it can still be used as a Kreatures thing, without being held back by permission issues.

I'm not sure about a standalone engine, maybe we could change the bootstrap thing completely so the start window where you select a saved game can be converted to a completely new "C4-esque" start window by the click of a button, with different C4 savegames... Dunno how viable that is though. But that could be fun.

I would vote on a metaroom-first approach though, creating the metarooms and the content and releasing them, and once the whole thing is finished, it can be packed up in a 'new' kinda game.

 
Layla

Layla
United States  


  9/11/2017

Pilla wrote:
What is written under the lower sketch? Can't read it XD



Ah, sorry! That was supposed to say "Thicket". :)

Pilla wrote:
- maybe a "cloud" metaroom? High up in the sky, composed from clouds
- a "candy" metaroom, with all decorations made from candy?



This sounds VERY Creatures Village - I love it!

I'd also agree with Pilla about making a C4 on the DS engine, rather than waiting for the Kreatures engine. Once Kreatures is finalized, it shouldn't be too hard to convert! Even if it's tricky, it'll be a lot easier to convert something that already exists than make something from scratch, right? We'll at least have some assets to start with.


I serve none but to rock.
 
Doringo
Lodestar

Doringo
United Kingdom  

 visit Doringo's website: Doringo's Dominion
  9/11/2017

GimmeCat wrote:
I kinda like the idea of waiting for Geat_Masta to finish Kreatures, and then making a C4 mod on his engine. That would be kinda meta, if you think about it. :D



If it's moddable, that would actually be pretty darn cool.


"The Shapers are the oldest, most respected, most secretive and most powerful of the magical sects. The Shapers have the power to magically create life."
 
Uzag

Uzag
Sweden  

 visit Uzag's website: DeviantArt
  9/11/2017

My opinions are very similar to what Pilla said!

I'd favor this as a DS add-on to begin with, as it be easier and thus more likely to pull through, which later can be adapted to other purposes. However, it may be good to be aware of that Kreatures might use differently scaled backgrounds and png-transparency in the end. Such features may make it hard, or impossible, to adapt it if going for a initial DS version.

I looove metarooms, so I'd defiantly favor a metaroom approach. A plus with metarooms is that ones can gradually add in more and won't require you to finish -everything- in one go like a C1/C2-world would. This approach would also suit a community project better as you can divide the team into smaller teams, making them focus on different rooms and tasks. Say, it's harder to have a pile of artists working on the same background than dealing them one each (not impossible of course, just harder).


Love the concepts Layla! I like that they're pretty neutral yet varied, similar to what C3 offers but different enough to be interesting if used together with DS in the end. The rooms look fairly small but I personally really enjoy a bit smaller rooms. But maybe varied sizes could be neat?

If it's an addition to DS, I feel like the Bondi may need something to make it stand out a bit from other tropical-beach rooms. Maybe a reef in the pool of water or something could help. May be funky too if there's a window between the underground & underwater at the bottom level.

Love the Caverns! There's some rooms that has gone this route but they've never been fully fleshed out with their own ecosystem and such.

Also lovely Thicket-concept, I really enjoy the idea of a dense forest like that but without it being tropical. Fun idea to put the door on a tree ^^

 
KittyTikara
Scary Dunsparce

KittyTikara
United States  
Moderator


 visit KittyTikara's website: The Mobula Ray
  9/11/2017

The sketches look good! I can almost picture some fireflies roaming around the thicket area and maybe some crystalline animals in the caverns. Maybe even some alien tropical fish in the ocean room. The lower left part of the ocean/bondi room could use something in it. Nothing comes to mind though. If you need another idea for a metaroom, a fresh water lake of some sort would interesting to see. There's very few fresh water metarooms around.

I think I'll also vote for doing a DS addon first and standalone game or Kreatures port second. Porting it to another engine would be much easier once we have something to work with. This is likely stating the obvious but we will likely be going with a cloned DS instillation for the engine if we ever get to the standalone game stage. I looked at Edynn and it uses the same method, it just has an installer.


The Mobula Ray - My Creatures blog
 
Layla

Layla
United States  


  9/11/2017  6

Rough draft of the Crystal Cavern - Initial sketch by Danny, and then I added some colour! Some bits of the sketch are still there and will get replaced in time. Supposed to look like a geode!



I serve none but to rock.
 
Uzag

Uzag
Sweden  

 visit Uzag's website: DeviantArt
  9/15/2017  1

The Crystal Cavern looks delicious. I love that you went for a blue hue instead of a more obvious brownish one. The play with light is amazing, not only the "decorated" rock but also the speckled, semi-reflective looking wall surfaces. Fun room shapes too with the tall "ceilings" (looks suitable for some sort of flying fauna or ceiling living organisms... c: )!
 


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