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Using New Chemicals in C2 Genomes   
C-Rex
Lollipop Lord

C-Rex
United Kingdom  

 visit C-Rex's website: The Norn Nebula
  4/18/2016

I've recently been working on a new norn genome that can develop cancer. However, in order to do this I've had to use four unused chemicals within the genome, which react with eachother to mimic the mutating of cancerous cells.

However, even if I inject a chemical directly into a norn's bloodstream, nothing happens, and I can't fathom why, unless I need to add additional genes to recognize the chemicals, but it seems pretty complex for something that appears simple. Can someone give me some directions? This new genetic project is really interesting to me and it seems a shame that it has come to a halt so early.

 
evolnemesis
Code Monkey

evolnemesis



  4/19/2016

Have a look at the 'half-lives' gene. It should be early on in the genome and specifies how quickly each chemical naturally decays in the body. In a lot of genomes, most unknownase (unused) chemicals have their half-lives set to 0 by default. With this setting, when injected, the chemicals would leave the bloodstream instantly, practically without reacting at all, which would of course make them pretty ineffective when injected or created by genes.

If you intend for the chemicals to be used up only in reactions and stay in the body once put there, your best bet is usually to set the half-lives of your chemicals to maximum, so they won't decay and are only used up in whatever reactions you specify at the rates set in the reactions.

Other half-life numbers are a little more advanced, used if you want the chemical to decay naturally at some rate by themselves, so that you can use it to time things, set some kind of cycle, or make some effect last only for a limited time... You might also want to have a very short half-life for a chemical that you create in the body as a sensor for some other condition... So that it if the condition changes, the sensor chemical can quickly disappear and any reactions involving it can quickly stop to signal that the condition is gone.. an example might be a chemical made in the body just while they are looking at a family member, or while they are near a grendel...


"For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love."
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan

 
C-Rex
Lollipop Lord

C-Rex


 visit C-Rex's website: The Norn Nebula
  4/19/2016

Thanks for your help, they appear to be work now. All I need to do is figure out how to balance the chemicals so they react in a realistic way.
 
C-Rex
Lollipop Lord

C-Rex


 visit C-Rex's website: The Norn Nebula
  4/19/2016

I guess I'll be giving up on using Creatures 2 for this project as for some stupid reason a lot of the chemical reactions don't appear to be working. However the monitoring info in C3/DS is beyond terrible so looks like I will probably have to cancel it.
 
evolnemesis
Code Monkey

evolnemesis



  4/19/2016  1

Sorry to hear that... I think it's worth messing with, you can really do a lot of interesting things with custom chemicals and it sounds like you are on the right track... I'd work on one chemical reaction at a time to make sure you are not missing some interaction you didn't take into account... And of course double-check half-lives for the chemicals.

Also important, look at the reaction rates on your reaction genes... they work essentially just like the half-lives... In C2, they determine how quickly the reactions will react away a full dose of the ingredients. If they are set to the default setting in C2, they will react all of the ingredients they can instantly... As soon as an ingredient is missing, they will stop, as will any other reactions depending on any of those ingredients. If you have some reactions that are trying to work in a chain but share some common ingredient, it's quite possible with this default 'instant' setting that one will just override the other by reacting away all of something they are both looking for.

As an example of using the reaction rate in C2, if your reaction is like 1 chemical X + 1 SugarNSpice = 1 Powerpuff, and the reaction rate you set in the reaction gene says it gives you a decay time or halflife of 3 seconds, then in 3 seconds it will turn 255 chemical x and 255 sugarnspice into 255 powerpuff and there will be no more chemical x or sugarnspice left in the body... Now let's say there is 255 chemical x and only 128 sugarnspice... then the reaction would stop after 1.5 seconds when all the sugarnspice is used up, and you'd be left with 127 chemical x and 128 powerpuff, because the reaction couldn't finish using all the chemical X.

(To make it even more confusing, this is just how it works in C1/C2... halflives work a little different in C3/DS... in C3/DS, halflives are no longer decay rates and work like true half-lives... that is, the half-life or reaction time you see in a gene now represents how quickly the reaction or decay will use up half of whatever is in the body, instead of how fast it will use up an entire full dose... and there is no longer any 'instant' decay of all of any chemical, though you can still make things decay VERY quickly, like milliseconds, which is close enough but helps get rid of some of the confusing results you might be having where reactions get completely overridden... Also, are you having a problem getting the X-Ray agent to work in C3/DS? You can monitor chemical levels VERY finely in that, and specify any chemicals to watch that you want...)


"For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love."
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan

 
Lurhstaap

Lurhstaap


 visit Lurhstaap's website: Addicted To CAOS
  4/19/2016

X Ray crashes when I try to use it. :( Any advice on that? It might help the OP, too.

Conclude with killer catchphrase.
(Lurhstaap)
"This is not knowledge -
this is information!"
New Model Army, "Courage"

 
evolnemesis
Code Monkey

evolnemesis



  4/19/2016

It's probably missing the XRay agent's catalogue file in the game's program folder... A lot of newer OSs don't allow the games to create files in there, and only let most agents write their files into a user-level folder instead (and even with the creatures remastered patch, the program only knows how to use some types of files in the user folders... catalogues are apparently not one of them... which causes a lot of users problems... mostly with the xray, garden box, and autonamers which all depend on them)...

The solution: search for the file "xray.catalogue" on your system and copy move it into the 'catalogue' folder inside your game's program folder. Really, copy move any *.catalogue file you find on your system into there... it will most likely fix a whole bunch of stuff that you thought couldn't work. (be careful not to overwrite anything if you try this, or preferably back up the whole catalogues folder somewhere before modifying it)

Depending on your OS and OS version, when you first injected the xray agent, that catalogue file will have been created in a folder somewhere either in an application data folder for your game or a folder for your game in your documents. Once you've put the catalogue file to the proper folder in the game's program folder, go to the agent injector in your world, remove the xray just in case it has some kind of corrupt bit left in that world, then reinject it... it should now work.


"For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love."
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan

 
Lurhstaap

Lurhstaap


 visit Lurhstaap's website: Addicted To CAOS
  4/19/2016

Uh oh. Now I get catalog errors when I try to even run the game. I think it liked whatever it was doing before. x.x Oops. Windows 7, why?

Conclude with killer catchphrase.
(Lurhstaap)
"This is not knowledge -
this is information!"
New Model Army, "Courage"

 
evolnemesis
Code Monkey

evolnemesis



  4/19/2016

With new worlds too? Which catalogue files did you copy over? I should probably have mentioned not to overwrite any that were already there... :(

"For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love."
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan

 
Lurhstaap

Lurhstaap


 visit Lurhstaap's website: Addicted To CAOS
  4/19/2016

I didn't overwrite anything, that's part of why I'm puzzled by this reaction. It was all stuff related to agents I've installed, nothing core. All I did was copy-paste into Catalogue. All of a sudden DS just flips out when I try to start it - it doesn't even get as far as world selection.

I deleted the file it was complaining about and now it seems to be working again, but boy that was weird.


Conclude with killer catchphrase.
(Lurhstaap)
"This is not knowledge -
this is information!"
New Model Army, "Courage"

 
Wingheart

Wingheart



  4/19/2016

See what catalogue file is causing the error and go into it to check that the data isn't there twice.
If the data's there twice, the agent will conflict with itself and not allow you to run your game.

 
Lurhstaap

Lurhstaap


 visit Lurhstaap's website: Addicted To CAOS
  4/19/2016

I just straight deleted it. I'm pretty sure the problem is two copies of the same file, since I copy-pasted everything rather than cut-and-paste, so the folder I moved the files out of still had copies of all of them. The game is now running normally and X Ray seems to be working, so I'm just going to hope my diagnosis is correct. XD

Conclude with killer catchphrase.
(Lurhstaap)
"This is not knowledge -
this is information!"
New Model Army, "Courage"

 
evolnemesis
Code Monkey

evolnemesis



  4/19/2016

hmm that's interesting... It probably looks at files in both places to see if there are conflicts, but the agent seemingly only works with its catalogue from one of the places... so moving, not copying, is the real solution.. fun stuff. At least you got X-Ray to work. It's very useful I've found.

Off-topic, but you can do the same thing with Protective Tub if you had problems with that... the catalogue in question is called 'random_name_bits.catalogue'... Garden Box and many of the agents made for it have catalogues with names that start with 'gb'. It's really a wonderful thing if you can get that to work. It lets you set up seasonal food sources and TONS of cool plants and decorations.


"For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love."
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan

 


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