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 Luzze   |
I read about the hidden "Hair" appearance gene at Discover Albia for C3 and as it seems to be usable (is it, really?) I wonder if I could make use of it. But first a few question: - How does it work? Sure, I must give the creature the specific gene. But what about the sprite/att name? Is it o***.c16/att ? - Does any existing breed already use it? I haven't been around for a looong time but I think back in 2004 none did (except for the CA Norns of course). I think of it to be used as something like horns rather than hair (as the Norns already have hair  ).. like a breed of norns that could pass over horns to their offsprings without the need of passing down their whole head.- Would anyone be interested to play with these norns (if it would look good, of course)? |
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 Sanely Insane RisenAngel Manager  |
The "hair" appearance is a holdover from Creatures Village, where every breed used it. The conversions of those breeds for C3/DS also use it. I believe it's 0***.c16/att, but don't quote me on that one. If you want to give your breed hair, that's fine, but do note that most C3/DS breeds don't use it and therefore don't have a hair image of their own. As a result, if you sprite some hair for a breed and put it in the game you might find breeds with hair that were never intended to have hair to begin with. It not only looks odd, but it's a pain in the rear to fix as well (you'll need to create a bunch of blank images for the breeds who don't have hair so it doesn't show up on them). Personally, I think it's something that's more trouble than it's worth, but don't let that stop you if you're dead set on it. Risen Angel's Creatures Blog |
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 Patient Pirate ylukyun Manager |
I'd be interested if you made a few different breeds so that the hair/horns could mix with the different heads. |
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Luzze |
I'm not dead set, but would it really be that complicated? If I gave them a gene and set the mutation rate to 0 I wouldn't have to deal with creating blank images for other breeds. There would be only inheriting the hair of this species/slot or none at all. And even if it would happen to mutate, wouldn't it just automatically load the.. well, only existing hair file? I see the problem with it looking odd on different breeds. I don't really know how bodydata works but if I set it to look great on all Clabs standard breeds - where the head has nearly always the same form it would probably still look horrbile on grendels or breed with bigger/smaller heads. But isn't it already like that? I think Norns with Grendelbodys look.. aweful  And I remember the potato Norn from the funny mutation thread here  But thats why I would like to kniw if anyone would be interested in playing with such creatures.. |
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 Tea Queen Laura Administrator |
Slightly off topic, but didn't Hellfrozeover make some Long Haired ChiChi sprites back in the day? I've never tried them out myself, but have always thought it was a cool idea.  |
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Luzze |
It starting with 0 actually makes much sense, as there is a 0*** sprite for Bruin/Bengal/Civet in C3 If I would sprite something using hair/horns/etc I would probably also give those Breeds some of them, too (looking different, of course). Only having one breed using them and no variation possible wouldn't as much fun as having more variation! |
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 Peppery One Papriko |
When creatures have an appearance gene not defined at all, it will just default to the smallest available sprite set. Delete ALL appearance genes and you end up with either a ChiChi (slot D) or a Bruin (slot A), depending if you have C3 or not. That means basically no breed has those genes defined for hair, so they default to the smallest available hair slot, none. So technically they all have hair, it is just invisible. If you now provide legitimate hair sprites, chances are good that the engine says "Oh, hey! There are sprites for that slot I could not display before! Let's glue them on all creatures!". The result would be your hair sprites on everyone, and I mean everyone. Grendel, Norn, Ettin, even Geats! Imagine Gaia with hair sprites! That's pretty much the problem Grendel_Man described and the reason you need invisible dummy sprites. If you put those in the smallest slot (i.e. the Bruin one), creatures would still retain their normal invisible hair. But that also means you need to compose a lot of files with just the right frame count which are all empty. Lets play plants! Photosynthesis... Photosynthesis... Photosynthesis... |
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Luzze |
Ah, thanks Papriko, now I understand. Yeah, well, that would actually take a bit work and work arounds.. I'll think about it. Right now I have some other stuff I should complete first I think |
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 CuriousMew |
Technically, only 1 invisible hair file for the C3 slot A will do (or another for the chichi in DS if you don't have C3). Since the engine will search the folder for a valid sprite above the current slot. But this also means that the "haired norns" can only be in slot Z to prevent other slots (from the slots below) using its sprite.  As for cross breeding, the gene specified the exact slot of the sprite so there's no worry about that. The offspring with the gene WILL inherit the hair as you intended. (edit: You will need a sprite fix for all 4 races if you enable cross breeding, or the game will crash)----------- edit: Sprite numbered "0" actually adds a "background" to the creature. So you might be able use it for something like "Aura" too (Works in C1,C2, C3, CV, DS)For hair it's "Q", along with the Left ear "O" and right ear "P". They are all supported in DS. Meaning the engine will make them show if they are presented in the hair gene. So you can actually add "horns" using "O/P" i guess. This is how the layers works. 0 is on the bottom most layer. Meaning it will be completely "behind" the creature. Q is on top of the head layer A O/P will be on top of both A&Q So if you make a hair for the current existing norns, the hair will probably covers up the currently existing ears. To fix that, you will need O/P to add ears back on top of the hair layer. Edit "again": Apparently, Norngirl already made the "different hair" breed that we can mix for new hair(but only in between the haired breeds). (link) She converts the CA Norns and the Cave Norns to DS using the Grendel slot. It DOES causes the other grendels to end up with hair and ears. She made a fix for that too, by adding the o, p, q sprites to the other grendel slots. You can get them here. Like what i said above, all you need is to add one to the top most slot and probably one below the slot you are using(if you are not using z slot). But if you are making a variations you will end up with breeds taking up a few slots. So, to make things easier, simply use the last few slots of the same race. Try not to use different race slots or you will need a fix for each and every race. But to enable cross-breeding, you will need a fix for all 4 races. Filling the bottom most slots and only add the fix to the top most slot might be the easiest way out. |
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 Andrettin |
IIRC, I managed to add hair sprites some time ago (making the Bengals have CV heads, and added genes for CV hair to them), and it was not particularly complicated to do. What I couldn't manage to solve was getting the hair to be positioned correctly on the creature's head. |
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 Malkin Manager |
Laura wrote: If I remember correctly, those used an altered head sprite, not an extra 'hair' sprite. My TCR Norns |
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 Siinamon |
Malkin wrote: Laura wrote: If I remember correctly, those used an altered head sprite, not an extra 'hair' sprite. From Creatures Wiki:
Unless someone can find them, I guess we'll never know for certain. Anyway, it was a sidestep, not entirely on topic, as Laura mentioned. xD |
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Peppery One Papriko |
CuriousMew wrote: Lets play plants! Photosynthesis... Photosynthesis... Photosynthesis... |
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CuriousMew |
Andrettin wrote: May need to add extra ATT files (same name as the sprites) for the attachments to work 100% the way we wanted them to. Long straight hair that goes pass the shoulder might be a problem since the O/P/Q layers are ABOVE the head, unless we use shape-fit, cut-out long hair, there will always be glitches with animation/breeding. But there might be a way to use the 0 sprites (background) to add the long hair part. The problem is there's no example of an ATT for 0 sprites. All i know is, the official 0 C16 contains 95 empty BMP and there's a C16 file for each life stages. And even if we cleared the ATT problem, there's still the gene problem.. Slightly off topic and need clarifications: Found that toying with the gene orders will allow us to control the appearances to appear in "set", because the creatures inherit their appearance genes from the "organs" they inherited. eg. putting head gene and body gene in the same organ will mean these 2 will always appear in set if the organ is inherited. But cross breeding/splicing it with another breed might end up with missing genes if they didn't inherit the proper organ. And that might crash the game. Haven't time to test this out more, so i can be wrong. Anyone who's been toying with the genes, please give us a heads up on this. |
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 Air Guitarist kezune |
Fascinating topic! I'd like to see this idea applied to other parts of a creature that could exist, like horns. I'll definitely follow this. I probably won't be able to help much, though. ![[nlaugh]](/images/smilies/emot_laugh.gif "[nlaugh]") Updated Rehosting Policy[/title] |
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 Missmysterics |
What's the background sprite actually for? Is it in any real use currently? I'd love to see hair or even other inheritable parts added to norns, but as it's been mentioned once creatures have it, making them not have it may be an issue. Personally I'd simply preffer to install one invisible hairless slot then make all my "hairless" norns have that slot, but I suppose that isn't so accessible for others who don't know how slots or genetics kits work . |
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 TreeSprite |
I have HellFrozeOver's Long Haired Chichi's in case anyone still wanted them. Don't ask me how I got on this topic that's so old. It's four in the morning, and even I don't know how I got here. TreeSprite's Creatures Grove TreeSprite's Creatures Grove Forums |
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KC11 |
I'd actually like to see those TreeSprite. Also this thread reminds me of another project I had in the back of my head on updating all the base breeds so they would have swappable hair. The only breed I'd foresee having problems with this are the Civets, since the male's hair is up and that would mean having to basically rebuild all the skin for every other breed so it'd match. But that's something I'm gonna keep back until I finish my current project. Do not upset the ugly worm, lest it be a dragon in disguise. (>oo)> |
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 Tartan Badger Hellfrozeover |
I'd like to see them too lol. I lost them years ago DUNDUNDUUUUUN! |
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 Bifrost |
So close, and yet so far away: https://web.archive.org/web/20080614004546/http://www.freewebs.com/hellfrozeover666/breedsagentsandstuff.htm |
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TreeSprite |
HellFrozeOver, I took that as permission to post FYI http://mythwoods.treesprite.com/treesprite.com/mythwoods/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=2357 If anyone wants the Okapi Genetic Breed or the BondiFAI Genetic Breed From HFO Creatures as well, just let me know. TreeSprite's Creatures Grove TreeSprite's Creatures Grove Forums |
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Tartan Badger Hellfrozeover |
Yeah that's fine Brb dying inside, Bifrost DUNDUNDUUUUUN! |
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Bifrost |
Hellfrozeover wrote: *Sings* Those were the days, my friend. Remember msn? Remember Sims and hair and hair and hair? |
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Tartan Badger Hellfrozeover |
Yessss!! I now have inconveniently long hair and about 30gb of sims CC. I feel like I'm living the dream. DUNDUNDUUUUUN! |
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