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A Couple of Odd Norns   
Intyalle

Intyalle
New Zealand  

 visit Intyalle's website: Nadia Eat Hand
  4/19/2017  1

((Originally posted on the Discover Albia forum... it's pretty dead though))

I've got a couple of norns from the C1 games that I'd like people to have a look at if they could, please.

Ebret - Dropbox Download
First up is Ebret, the first norn I hatched into the world (not including the two yin yang imports that... fairly rapidly died. They don't seem to do so well). He looks to be part Forest norn and part Horse norn, but he is first generation. I'm using the updated hatchery genetics that allows for life kit breeds to be hatched as well as fixing the various problems with the original norns.
He lived a very full life, fathering four of the nine eggs to go into generation 2, and was one of only two gen 1 norns left when I started hatching, the other being a good 2-3 hours younger than him.
The first oddity is that he spent a very, very long time with very low life force, eventually even dipping down under 10%. Like, he spent *hours* below 20%. Upon checking his biochem, he had almost nil glucose in his system the whole time.
He got a bit of a second lease on life as the next generation started hatching; the first two were identical females, both his, and he wandered over to the mainland for a time to spend some time with them. When he went back to the island, Lianne (the younger) went with him, and even managed to get him eating again (she proceeded to stick to his side like a burr for the next two hours, it was very sweet).
Eventually, most of the eggs were hatched, and Ebret's aging chemical was inching ever lower. On top of it, he'd finally managed to shake Lianne, and was curled up all alone, so I decided to keep him company and await his death with him before hatching the last egg. I made sure to keep him happy, and together we waited. And waited. And waited.
At one point, he even contracted antigen 6 - which, iirc, antibody 6 is meant to be notoriously slow to build, and it did seem to be quite slow when I glanced at his biochem. I injected him with sleeping pill, hoping to ease his passing, and darted off to take care of a crisis elsewhere. When I checked in again a couple minutes later, though, not only had he woken back up, but he wasn't even sick anymore!
Eventually, baffled at this norn who just would not give up, I exported him at nearly 12 hours old.

Angela - Dropbox Download
This was actually the very egg that got delayed while I watched over Ebret. She's the daughter of Andrew, a pixie norn, and Tara, a Ron norn. Fortunately, her appearance was inherited entirely from her father. I love Pixie norns, but I dislike Ron norns.
It was a little difficult to get her into the elevator up to the teaching room, mostly because of the sheer number of norns who had decided to congregate in the nursery at the time. I finally got her up - not alone, but fortunately Rachel soon used the teleporter to leave - and she managed to Encyclopedia Nornica lessons fine.
Unfortunately, when I got to the next step (telling her to push food a few times so that I could thoroughly reward her for it, and then to push mover so she could start exploring), the problems began. She stood around doing nothing a lot, not only not listening to my commands but not really doing anything of her own either. On her own, in the learning room, having just learned her vocab... it was startlingly unusual for a norn to disobey that much. I had had one or two others who took a few slaps to get paying attention, but still... something felt off about her behaviour, though I couldn't quite put my finger on it.
I checked her decisions, and found all of them exactly equal across the board, rising and lowering in tandem. Feeling uneasy, I next checked the brain scanner and saw only a single point lit up pretty much the whole time.
I did use D-DNA Analyzer to check her genetics against those of her parents, and did indeed find some genes that looked concerning. However, as I don't know what the defaults look like, I can't pinpoint exactly what has been changed. One of the changes does involve a receptor related to the decision lobe and the reward chemical, however.

If someone else could take a look at this pair and tell me what they think, that would be much appreciated :)

((Also, now that my account here is working, I may upload them to adoptions... or possibly just Angela. I mean, *surely* Ebret is at the end of his life, right? Right?))


Also known as bab_5_freak from the old Gameware forums.
 
DilonShuniikke

DilonShuniikke



  5/20/2017

Hmm, these seem like very interesting Norns! I'll definitely take a look at them next time I have access to Internet to download them. I'll keep you updated if I find anything interesting :)

Flib dis
 
DilonShuniikke

DilonShuniikke



  5/20/2017

I took a look at the genes fairly quickly since I don't have a lot of time (I'll do more research later on in the day).

Ebret I couldn't find much on, I'm sure his mystery will be at least partially solved once I sit down and try to crack it open proper.

I could be wildly wrong (again, I'll be testing these in more detail once I get the time), but what appears to be happening for Angela is that the gene that controls how the creature responds to the reward chemical has been mutated. I have a feeling it's exactly the same gene you mentioned.

What I suspect is happening is that instead of learned behaviors being reinforced by the reward chemical, they're being reinforced by the ABSENCE of reward chemical. Poor girl most likely is receiving positive reinforcement for almost everything she does, which would result in a Norn that doesn't know how to do ANYTHING, as in her mind, all possible actions are equally valid.

Again, I'll take a closer look later on, but I hope this at least helps :)


Flib dis
 
Lurhstaap

Lurhstaap


 visit Lurhstaap's website: Addicted To CAOS
  5/20/2017

Dilon is very likely correct about poor Angela. I haven't looked at the DNA of either creature, but just based on my experience (C1 was my first Creatures game back in 97 or so), it sounds like Ebret got a highlander-type mutation. Either that or he just has a longer 'half-life' on his aging chemical than normal. Try importing him and just waiting to see when he dies. If it goes on for literally days without him dying, he's a Highlander or something equivalent. I understand he is a Gen1, but in C1, Gen1s don't all have identical genetics. They can be born with mutations. So it sounds like that's what happened here.

Conclude with killer catchphrase.
(Lurhstaap)
"This is not knowledge -
this is information!"
New Model Army, "Courage"

 
Intyalle

Intyalle


 visit Intyalle's website: Nadia Eat Hand
  5/20/2017

I had apparently forgotten just how long C1 norns can live, even with the edits that let them actually die of old age [nlaugh] So Ebret may not be as odd as all that; he's actually still within the expected time range for C1. Still, it baffles me a bit how he keeps getting hit by one thing after another after another, and takes such poor care of himself, and still manages, somehow, to survive.

Also known as bab_5_freak from the old Gameware forums.
 
Malkin

Malkin

Manager


 visit Malkin's website: Malkin's page at CWiki
  5/26/2017

I think the yin yang imports have some excess antioxidant in their system which makes them age prematurely. Try Dee from my TCR page in my sig, she has a normal response to antioxidants.

My TCR Norns
 
Intyalle

Intyalle


 visit Intyalle's website: Nadia Eat Hand
  5/27/2017

*blinks* Um, well... I *was* using yin yangs, and did have issues with them along those lines. I'm a little confused, though, as I read and reread my posts, and I didn't actually mention them in this thread xD

Also known as bab_5_freak from the old Gameware forums.
 
Lurhstaap

Lurhstaap


 visit Lurhstaap's website: Addicted To CAOS
  5/27/2017

You did, in the second sentence of Ebret's description:

"Ebret - Dropbox Download
First up is Ebret, the first norn I hatched into the world (not including the two yin yang imports that... fairly rapidly died. They don't seem to do so well)."

It was a very brief in passing remark tho'.


Conclude with killer catchphrase.
(Lurhstaap)
"This is not knowledge -
this is information!"
New Model Army, "Courage"

 
Malkin

Malkin

Manager


 visit Malkin's website: Malkin's page at CWiki
  5/27/2017

I recognised the pathology, that's why I picked up on them. 🙂

My TCR Norns
 
Intyalle

Intyalle


 visit Intyalle's website: Nadia Eat Hand
  5/27/2017

Ah, right, missed that line xD

Yeah, the yin yangs were pretty problematic. I'd rather have a gen file to create norns from than imports, though... C1 gen kit can do that, right?


Also known as bab_5_freak from the old Gameware forums.
 
Malkin

Malkin

Manager


 visit Malkin's website: Malkin's page at CWiki
  5/27/2017

Once you import a norn, you can use the science kit to find out their moniker, and the genetics kit to open up their gen file and make a clone.

My TCR Norns
 


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