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A brief history of Norns   
Kule

Kule



  1/9/2017  15

Decided to make this a separate topic as I hope together we can flesh out the history behind the creation of the original C1 norns.

While I've been working on my own breed I've gradually uncovered a few concept images. This then lead me to dig deeper into the back story behind the norns and the people who created them over two decades ago.

All of this is to the best of my knowledge and a lot is guess work so please don't take it as fact.


Steve Grand's original mock up




[Mitch Phillips] (Art Manager/Lead Artist) [left cyber life to work for sony] portfolio

What could have been...

high quality version(2480x3508pix)

Not much info about this image but seems to be pre move to Sony. Personally I'm loving the feral look and the idea for hair represented as thick loose tufts.



[Mark Rafter] (Concept Artist/Background Designer) [left some time shortly after C1, eventually worked for Disney as story board artist] portfolio


The following images are most likely a combination of both Mitch and Mark's work

Early hobbit inspired design








early ron sketch?










[Leavon Archer] (Render Artist?) [left to work with Sony after ps1 division sale] portfolio + miniatures business

There's little mention of Leavon but as he went on to become a 3D render artist it's my best guess he would have made the final renders for the banana and pixie norns. The edge lighting matches his later work and examples on his portfolio and for the time C1 was made it was a nice touch giving the base norns a 3D feeling.

highest quality I could find of the original render




[Marcus Broome] (Character Artist) [left to work with Sony after C1] iOS game company

Can't find any information on his role with C1 but if I had to take a guess I think it's possible he was responsible for creating the sprites from the final rendered images. It's also possible he worked on other breeds.



[Colin Swinbourne] (Background Digitizer/Art Director on C2&3/Hebe Norn designer) [Worked with Creature Labs until 2002] Creatures comic

There's little info online about Colin. He digitized the original modelled backgrounds and is listed as character artist as well so it's possible he created a breed for C1 or helped with sprite work.




Hopefully this is interesting to someone as a lot of this info is outdated on the Creatures Wiki.
It's a real shame that the series would go on to slowly fade into obscurity but it's also nice to see where the original creators ended up. It appears Creatures was a huge boost to the careers of most people involved with the majority ending up at Sony after the PS1 division buy out. From this point I feel the series slowly went down hill and instead of building on the foundations of C1 each consecutive entry rehashed what came before. I'm not saying C2/3 are bad, they are good games but lacked the imagination and risk factor of the original.


There's a lot more info on the Wiki and some good quotes from Steve Grand's Journal so if you're still interested go check it out.

 
C-Rex
Lollipop Lord

C-Rex


 visit C-Rex's website: The Norn Nebula
  1/9/2017  1

Wow, thanks for this! I've never seen the Mitch Phillips Norn designs before.
 
Kule

Kule



  1/9/2017

I only found them today actually.. I was going to reply to you in my breed thread about Mark Rafter but after finding those concepts I felt they deserve their own thread.
They're truly amazing and I can't begin to imagine how good a modern Creatures game with that type of style would look.

 
Zurinsel13

Zurinsel13


 visit Zurinsel13's website: Random maybe
  1/9/2017

I am amazed by Mitch Philips design, as you mentioned the tufts of loose fur looks great!! I never knew that there were that many ideas for the looks of creatures, though I have to admit I never thought of looking it up. Thank you for researching and posting this topic here, Kule! :)

"Vision is the art of seeing what is invisible to others"
-Jonathan Swift

 
Norngirl

Norngirl


 visit Norngirl's website: Norngirl's Temporary Storage
  1/9/2017  1

I have seen all the others,but the Mitch Philips design sure was new,not to mention very very beutifull,too!
The head shoot with blue shades are adoreable and I like it a lot!
the colored head is very well colored and shaded,very pretty and wild exotic looking,but even if I do know it supposed to be same kind of Norn,it dosn't scream Norn to me much on that picture just..maybe because of the blue nose..or the headshape having too much lion fluff mane around..hmm,no it is something that is slight differ compared to the others.But it sure have beautiful patterns!
I do adore the full body one trying to grab the insect,as well the other that is sleeping is soo cute! Somehow they remind me a little of the boss Du'Inke from the old good PS1 game Legend Of Mana http://www.seikens.com/media/bestiary/gfx/lomduinke.gif
(there's also another called Du'cate,wich has black skin and no axe)
http://www.seikens.com/media/bestiary/gfx/lomducate.gif


I see he was the art designer of another old game I have as well,Primal.
Thats quite interessting.


Interessting fact is also to see two from creatures been working on Medievil,also another old ps1 game I have.
(Anyone else think on the Zarok like painting in C1 again?
Alltought it is impossible because of of the year they where made - Creatures=1997,Medievil=1998 )


This Norn concept would fit to be the next gen of Norns if you ask me,
it's so fluffy and cute,love the tails,pattern and those little fangs.
It's allmost like next gen of C2 Hebbes : D
-yes,sorry thats how I type it,so do not remind me of any misspelling- I can't write hebe without adding that other b,it's just my quirk)

Speaking of Norns and Creature design - I have no clue if Spilgames stil up for trying theyre hand on Creatures,
being a mobile game,the expectation is not high,but im still curious of what they had in mind,specialy what the Norn design would be..
I still think FC was way too much leaning tailess mogwai style,only th heads had a slight hint of C2.
The summer prew they promised us never came to be and still no news about it.

Ah anyhow, of the old Norn concepts - I allways liked the ant-eater like one (long snout,bunny like ears and lemur tail) as well the other design of it with a cute twisty tail and holding a carrot. I also liked the little one that stand and sits down,having a ball like tail with stripes - it was quite uniq. They may not scream typical Norn perhaps to me,but still Norns appear in all shape and forms and I would not mind if they where extra addon downloadable breeds. (I can picture this for C2/C3 and any other but not quite C1 thought,alltought I know thats where they where first designed for.)

I could add as well that I found the old Hebbe design compared to the current ones in C2 - copy&paste link to see :
http://sta.sh/01snkxth3qvi
(Sadly,I do not have the right head on the front,
as I remember it looked different,it had a different nose,it was more like the noses of the C1 Horse/santa and PMN Norns and not the human like one. If im lucky I might have a image
somewhere else in my files and update this image with it. But to make clear - those old design Norns where found in one of the Creatures Village sprites,and I think they where used to past old screenshots of Creatures Adventure and Creatures 3 (as seen in very old and early released screenshots with that,Im pretty sure I also have those screenshot images with it somewhere - I used to collect on everything Creatures related when it comes to images but the oldest stuff was saved on old floppy discs when i was young and no clue how much of that is still working -sigh-). So it is not me pasting in a C2 hebbe front head on a old concept image (why would I anyway? ) beause the head do look strange and badly cut out and pasted in,hmm.
if you don't belive me you can have a look yourself in the sprite files of Creatures adventure.

No wonder why Petal and River have that cute fluffy tail ;P
I once had this crazy idea to revive the old design as a seperate breed for C2 (as the acient hebbe Norns) - alltought some would maybe think it may be a waste,but eh,I think I do it as a personal project at some point,as I find it cute - also there is recolored existing breeds,so why not?



 
Kule

Kule



  1/9/2017

Norngirl wrote:
Interessting fact is also to see two from creatures been working on Medievil,also another old ps1 game I have.
(Anyone else think on the Zarok like painting in C1 again?
Alltought it is impossible because of of the year they where made - Creatures=1997,Medievil=1998 )



Actually I think you might be on to something here. It's not unheard of for artists to sneak future work into their current projects.

Quote from Mitch's portfolio website

Medievil
Submitted by admin on Fri, 09/02/2011 - 00:08

This was an original title by Millennium Interactive acquired by Sony Computer Entertainment when they purchased the studio after agreeing to publish the title during it's development. The game is a comedy horror themed action adventure, and over time after release built something of a cult following, leading unexpectedly to two sequels.

In this project I was the lead character combat and movement animator, providing all the animations of these kind for the game.
Client:
Sony Computer Entertainment Europe, Cambridge Studios



So Medievil was already in development at the same time as Creatures. Looks like Sony was impressed with what they saw and offered to buy the team but before they left millenium they snuck a secret into C1.


A little more digging and it looks like Mitch believed in the A.I concept and returned to Creatures labs for almost three years to work on the failed project Yeren(Beasts) before going back to Sony.

Company: Creature Labs

(July 1999 – May 2002)

Title: Beasts (Unpublished Title) (PS1, PC)
Position: Art Manager / Lead artist
Role: Leading a Team of artists across multiple disciplines




 
Norngirl

Norngirl


 visit Norngirl's website: Norngirl's Temporary Storage
  1/9/2017

Ah yes that is very true!
-thinks back on a spore picture shown in the sims 3,
Legend of zelda skyward sword in the Ocarina of time remake for 3DS,
thats the only thing I could recall right now,but I know there is more..)

Aha! Thats surely is interessting to finaly know we do have a Zarok painting in C1 afterall XD
It been so perfectly striking similar to him that
it is hard to think it would be someone else looking like him,haha.
It's quite funny they pick Zarok the evil wizard over the hero himself,but then again on the picture in C1,he could be mixed up with a medival jester that may not seem too off,compared to if they had put Sir Daniel Fortesque would only perhaps rise question why a skeleton with one eye would be depicted in a painting in a cute game. As cartoony and comical he might look,many is not too big on skeletons and might surely be why they did not take him,but thats what I think.

 
Kule

Kule



  1/9/2017

They probably went with Zarok as it's much easier to deny if anyone comes asking. Not so easy with Sir Fortesque.
 
Norngirl

Norngirl


 visit Norngirl's website: Norngirl's Temporary Storage
  1/9/2017

Yes,thats also what I meant,Zarok is also more humanoid & no one can misstake that skeleton,haha.

 
Doringo
Lodestar

Doringo


 visit Doringo's website: Abacus & Ettinus
  1/9/2017

I still can't see any resemblance to Zarok in the painting myself, it just looks like your generic Harry Potter-esque round glasses wizard to me. Infact now that I mention that, I don't remember Zarok wearing glasses...
 
Norngirl

Norngirl


 visit Norngirl's website: Norngirl's Temporary Storage
  1/9/2017

@ Doringo
No zarok do not wear glasses,that's right,but
he do have big glossy eyes:
http://www.elpixelilustre.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Medievil-6.jpg
http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/gallowmere/images/1/18/Livelli_2.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110306132733
None of this images make much justice,but if you have a look at the first
intro/opening -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7UqEbMj6hI

Can't help but think that it look quite alike Zarok from the striped hat to that thin long face and those eyes.
http://creaturescaves.com/gallery.php?section=Screenshots&view=2665

Also the guy next to him look like some kind of potrait of hopefuly one of the game makers as well.


Anyhow ,sorry about starting the whole Zarok discussion now. Saying it because I was the one starting with Zarok topic and felt I might gone a bit off topic now.


 
Kule

Kule



  1/12/2017

Didn't know where to put this as it's not exactly Creatures related but it's a piece of connected history.
The company that was spun off from Millennium and became SCE Cambridge Studio then later Guerilla Cambridge was closed down today by Sony.

link

Seemed relevant to post it considering where this thread ended up.

 
BaffleBlend

BaffleBlend



  2/3/2017

...you know, come to think of it, correct me if I'm wrong but I think all these are the only official Norn artwork that's not a primitive 3D rendering.
 
Malkin

Malkin

Manager


 visit Malkin's website: Malkin's page at CWiki
  2/3/2017

Are you sure you're looking at the new location for the Creatures Wiki? There are over 1000 all-new pages there, and I'm sure a lot more have been updated too.

My TCR Norns
 
C-Rex
Lollipop Lord

C-Rex


 visit C-Rex's website: The Norn Nebula
  2/3/2017

Kule wrote:
Didn't know where to put this as it's not exactly Creatures related but it's a piece of connected history.
The company that was spun off from Millennium and became SCE Cambridge Studio then later Guerilla Cambridge was closed down today by Sony.

link

Seemed relevant to post it considering where this thread ended up.



That's sad. One of my lecturers at uni (well, pretty much nearly all the lecturers I've had) has worked in several game companies and said that it's pretty much expected for them to close down. Sadly smaller companies don't have the same lifespan as bigger studios, hence the reason the Creatures series has never really taken off.

 
saintrowfan2

saintrowfan2



  2/9/2017

Thats cool thanks for sharing
 
Kule

Kule



  9/14/2019

A bit of a necro bump so sorry.

I was just looking over Mitch's website and I really can't remember if this image was there previously or if it's new...



It's dated 2007 and I now think the previous image I posted from him are both part of a cancelled creatures game or possibly just as personal work. The first image is posted in a section for cancelled games so it kind of adds up along with the more feral style of the norns. It would have been cool to get a more gritty/savage style game.


 
SpaceShipRat

SpaceShipRat



  9/15/2019

Love it, early grendels!

And woah, what is that guy with the eye stalks on the left! Was there already an idea of norn creators like the Shee?

 
Kule

Kule



  9/15/2019

SpaceShipRat wrote:
Love it, early grendels!

And woah, what is that guy with the eye stalks on the left! Was there already an idea of norn creators like the Shee?



I think the concepts from Mitch are for a cancelled creatures 4 that gameware development was working on. The image I just posted is dated 2007 and between 2006/2008 Mitch's linkedIN profile doesn't have a listed workplace so he was quite possibly freelance and working as a concept artist.

This is all guess work though but there was definitely a cancelled Creatures 4 because I clearly remember the teaser images on the Creature Labs website before they closed down. It's hard to find the images now because of the recent 'Creatures 4' game/cancellation.

 
Kule

Kule



  9/15/2019

Apparently there is still a 'feature' with this forum that if you refresh the page before leaving first it will cause a double post.

Please delete this post.

 
Scatty

Scatty



  9/24/2019

There's a mock up(I think?) of "Small Furry Creatures" here
 
FlyingEttiNorn

FlyingEttiNorn



  9/24/2019

OCAlert wrote:
There's a mock up(I think?) of "Small Furry Creatures" here


this is actual footage of it, i'm pretty sure! steve had to rewrite the whole thing, twice
there's a post about this scan in another thread, but it's always nice to see stuff like this. i wouldnt mind having a norn breed that looks like one of those unicorns

 


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